Headteacher had me on loud speaker without informing me

[sparklesmakelifebetter]

So my son has SEN, but is in a mainstream High School. He is massively struggling (mainly anxiety related).

I received a call out of the blue from the Principal demanding I come in for a meeting: which is essentially a pre permanent exclusion meeting. (Even though I have a meeting booked with the SENCo and behaviour lead for next week to start an EHCP process). I've never spoken to/dealt with this gentleman before, but found him rude, Anything I said I was cut off. But my biggest upset is that I have now discovered that I was on loudspeaker, in front of at least 2 other members of staff, yet he didn't mention this to me. I've sort legal advice regarding the schooling issue, but my question is:

Is it common courtesy to be told you are on loud speaker or not?

Had I known I was being listened to by others I would not have engaged in the conversation at all, saving it all for the meeting. 1 person is someone relevant to my child, the other someone unrelated to his schooling.

Yes: You are being unreasonable, you don't need to be told if you are on loudspeaker and if others are listening.

Or

No: You are NOT being unreasonable to expect to be informed you are on loudspeaker and who else is present, especially within a professional environment.

You need to work with the school if you want him to stay there.

The school already know how to support him, they stopped the support and he started to struggle. I’d suggest the school needs to work with the parent rather than lying and bullying the OP.

I would be worried that the children can hear these conversations, if your son heard you then surely other children could too ??

So sorry are going through this

shuffletime that's a ridiculous point. This was a senior member of staff making the kind of phone call that would happen in an office. I've never worked in a school where it wasn't possible to have a normal phone call.

It is common courtesy, but it is not illegal as such.

In a safeguarding capacity, We were advised to make calls to ‘tricky’ parents on loudspeaker with a witness following unfounded allegations of wrong doing/saying. Not saying that is what has happened here, just didn’t want you to go in there with wrong information.

You’d surely let the parent know someone else was listening though?

@exLtEveDallas

It is common courtesy, but it is not illegal as such.

In a safeguarding capacity, We were advised to make calls to ‘tricky’ parents on loudspeaker with a witness following unfounded allegations of wrong doing/saying. Not saying that is what has happened here, just didn’t want you to go in there with wrong information.

Yes I could totally understand this, but all previous contact with others at the school has been positive. I have tried extremely hard not to be that tricky parent. But surely even in that instance you would tell the parent that x and y were present and could hear the phone call?

"I think the speaker phone thing is rude but compared to the fact that you think your son is about to be excluded, it is a very minor issue. Does you son want to stay at the school?"

@Grida I know you are right. The loudspeaker thing is minor in comparison to the issue itself. But it has set all sorts of alarm bells off for me. I don't trust this Headteacher now. It's one of the things I'm going to mention, but just wondered if social etiquette has changed so much that, this is acceptable practice now?

No I don't want him at the school. I requested a meeting 3 weeks ago, stating 'clearly he needs a more specialised provision, so could I have a meeting to discuss this and start the EHCP process'.

The school put in some great measures following an Educational Psychologist report. These measures have/do work, but only around 50% of his teachers follow them. The ones who follow the things put in place, have no issues with him, the ones that don't send him out of lesson daily. He suffers massively with anxiety. He has missed so much schooling from fixed term exclusions and unofficial exclusions, that he's now so far behind, he's embarrassed in each lesson.

@sparklesmakelifebetter

No, sorry I misunderstood and assumed zoom meeting or similar where you'd need speakers.

Phone call is a different matter. Although I still wouldn't automatically think being on loudspeaker was the issue, more that other people were present without your knowledge.

My son could see and hear this conversation from another room,

Your son could hear a phone call about him and they didn’t tell you he was listening. That to me is even worse than other teachers being present.

@Shuffletime

YABU to expect to be told you're on loudspeaker, simply because many school computers are set up to only have sound work through the board/big screen.

But you should 100% be told that other people were present for the meeting. That is not OK at all.

I don't know where you got this idea but I can assure you that headteachers all have access to a phone that they can use for private conversations.

It's a breach of confidentiality and potentially runs foul of GDPR rules, I'd definitely complain, this was a private conversation and you didn't give permission for details to be disclosed to others no matter how that's done. This is no different to having a conversation with you them going to announce everything said in the staffroom, both are unacceptable breaches.

If you are in the US, which I suspect you are, you would do well to inform the school in writing that you intend to record the meeting. I recorded IEP meetings, it wasn't because I feared being bullied (my kid's school was amazing), but because DH usually couldn't attend meetings. I had to give them notice that I was going to do it and they usually recorded too and gave me notice once I had. If there is not enough time to give notice for your state (24 hrs in mine) then that is a very valid reason to reschedule. If I felt like I was being backed into a corner I would DEFINITELY not have a meeting without recording. People can't get away with as much crap if they know there is a legal record (i.e. correct notice)

My son could see and hear this conversation from another room

Like catswhiskey, I think this is far more serious than the other teachers (although other teachers was pretty poor too). Especially not telling you. It's reasonable for a parent to expect to be able to speak freely with teachers but choose a different way to frame things to a child with SEN. By not telling you your son could hear they could have damaged your relationship with your son. Do you think allowing your son to hear a phone call summoning you was s way to intimidate or bully your son?

[quote mathanxiety]@Sandynorm, I disagree. She should have been told who else was privy to the call and she should have had the option of opting out if she wasn't expecting to be put on speaker or have others taking part in the conversation, even if they were just listening in.

Courtesy is a mark of respect. I is the foundation of trust and cooperation in professional discussions, and especially in discussions about sensitive matters such as the educational needs of a child.

[/quote]
This ^^

I have no idea what the behaviour issues are relating to OP's child but, whatever would be the best option for the child, can be unmanageable by a school if the behaviour is out of control. Heads have a duty of care to all students and staff and they have to balance those needs, their resources and the bigger picture with a child.

Mind you, some schools do try to move children on when there is not a need to, before an EHCP is in place, because they don't want all of the hassle that comes with managing a child likely to continue to have very challenging behaviours under the protection of an EHCP.

OP- would he do better in another school? Some schools are very nurturing places for children who have SEN, some schools are not. It often depends on the culture of the school. An individual teacher who can help, like the one you mentioned who helped your son, but a school that does not (as it sounds in this case) rarely works, precisely because of what you described- as soon as that teacher leaves the support goes too. In the best schools the support is ingrained in the culture of the school, not reliant on individuals choosing or not to behave supportively.

@sparklesmakelifebetter

"I think the speaker phone thing is rude but compared to the fact that you think your son is about to be excluded, it is a very minor issue. Does you son want to stay at the school?"

@Grida I know you are right. The loudspeaker thing is minor in comparison to the issue itself. But it has set all sorts of alarm bells off for me. I don't trust this Headteacher now. It's one of the things I'm going to mention, but just wondered if social etiquette has changed so much that, this is acceptable practice now?

No I don't want him at the school. I requested a meeting 3 weeks ago, stating 'clearly he needs a more specialised provision, so could I have a meeting to discuss this and start the EHCP process'.

The school put in some great measures following an Educational Psychologist report. These measures have/do work, but only around 50% of his teachers follow them. The ones who follow the things put in place, have no issues with him, the ones that don't send him out of lesson daily. He suffers massively with anxiety. He has missed so much schooling from fixed term exclusions and unofficial exclusions, that he's now so far behind, he's embarrassed in each lesson.

So you need to go in saying this. You need to be prepared to stand up for yourself in this situation if you are cut off. Take a note pad, make notes of everything said.

Just to add- an EHCP is often a long process- up to and beyond 7 months by the time the assessments ate completed and it is submitted and actually considered. Here, anyway, they are painfully slow. He is unlikely to be moved schools to specialist provision until the EHCP is in place.

If he manages in this mainstream school when teachers use the EP suggestions, he is unlikely to qualify for specialist provision - in my experience.

Courteous but not essential to be told would be the view in my field.

Generally at my work if someone down the food chain is making the call but with someone of significant influence/seniority listening in (usually whilst doing something else) it’s explicitly stated, if however someone fairly senior is leading the call they don’t necessarily say.

The EHCP process is governed by statutory timescales. Unless you have to appeal, which many parents do, the process takes a maximum of 20 weeks. If the LA fail to stick to the timescales you can begin JR proceedings - usually the threat is enough.

Don’t allow the school to unlawfully exclude DS. Refuse to pick him up unless you are given formal exclusion paperwork each and every time. How many days of FTE has DS had?

Thankyou to everyone who has given advice. The meeting was cancelled by my ex, as he has decided he wanted more time. So in turn I have more time to prepare now and will take all comments on board.

@Askingforfriend

If you are in the US, which I suspect you are, you would do well to inform the school in writing that you intend to record the meeting. I recorded IEP meetings, it wasn't because I feared being bullied (my kid's school was amazing), but because DH usually couldn't attend meetings. I had to give them notice that I was going to do it and they usually recorded too and gave me notice once I had. If there is not enough time to give notice for your state (24 hrs in mine) then that is a very valid reason to reschedule. If I felt like I was being backed into a corner I would DEFINITELY not have a meeting without recording. People can't get away with as much crap if they know there is a legal record (i.e. correct notice)

She won't be in the USA if its an EHCP she's doing.

Is there not a consent issue? In that you need to be asked if you consent to the conversation taking place in front of X, Y & Z?

Admittedly I work in a different environment (healthcare) but for any meetings/appointments via phone like this we have to gain consent of the patient for X, Y & Z to be involved. I would have thought similar guidelines would apply to schools too TBH.

I can ALWAYS tell when someone puts me on speaker (I phone schools a lot) and ALWAYS call them out on it. I don't mind but it is unprofessional to do it without telling me. The call goes echoey when on speaker, but that may be because I am used to it and know what to listen out for.

@sparklesmakelifebetter

Thankyou to everyone who has given advice. The meeting was cancelled by my ex, as he has decided he wanted more time. So in turn I have more time to prepare now and will take all comments on board.

I'm so glad your ex backed you up on this

I’d report it as a data protection breach. Information should be shared on “a need to know” basis (did the other people in the room need to know that info to do their jobs?) and then with minimum info

You should know who data is being shared with a why. It’s the same as copying unnecessary people into an email

I recently had the school receptionist copied into an email regarding my daughters reduced timetable - fine, she might need to know as she is checked in late. But she doesn’t need to know details of my daughters private health details in order to do her job, and I’ll be raising it in the next meeting.