Do you have charitable friendships?

[washingmachines4]

Do you have charitable friendships? – ie friendships you get nothing from other than feeling like you have done a good deed making someone feel better/keeping them company from time to time.

If you do, do you think they would do the same?

'brightening someone's day' is miles away from being an emotional crutch.
The former is fine, I have 'friends' like that.
The latter is not. Your OP reads like the first , but it seems to be more of the second in your later post r.e. you thinking friend might kills themselves, and pestering you.

If people are depressed, suicidal etc or similar sooner or later you end up being their sole source of support. Which isn't a commitment to take lightly and requires lots of emotional energy on one's part. You have to be all in or all out, there's no two ways, and you get sucked into it. You can't just 'timebox' it.

Maybe I'm projecting, and your situation isn't like this, but this was my experience. A lot of these people came to me because I was nice, kind, good at making people feel at ease.
I'd have loved for the outcome to be me supporting, and them recovering/finding their own feet after my gentle coaching (the way you're suggesting to 'do something else together). Unfortunately all that happened was that they relied on me, demanded more and more and when bad things eventually happened I felt very guilty. Guilty that I couldn't prevent it, guilty that I didn't do more.

But I had already done all I could.

It really wasn't my fault that they still tried to kill themselves, or in one case had a complete breakdown and ended up sectioned. My own MH didn't escape unscathed either.

Hence why I draw the line now. I give what I can. If that's not enough I end it. Yes it's sad, but what can I do? I don't consider taking care of myself selfish, quite the opposite. I'm also a person, there's no point sacrificing myself for another person.

@washingmachines4 above was reply to your post addressing me also

I seem to present as though I have my shit together. This often attracts me people who don't.

I've been guilty of over supporting with my time, energy, space and possessions with a couple of people, realised and started to set more firm boundaries and it's been difficult to deal with the reaction. I'm toughening up and it's quite liberating to walk away.

I can feel another person sizing me up for all this and I'm not going there. Reciprocal, healthy friendships are the only way for the time being.

I have a friend I have supported financially and in other ways - e.g. helping out with job interviews , inviting her friends to our house so she did not have to pay for a meal etc , giving her stuff or to give to friends / parents for presents - but I wouldn't have done this if she were not a friend.

In return she is very kind to me and will listen when I want an ear and e.g. when I was desperate because I could not find an outfit for DB's wedding she lent me her best dress - possibly a silly example but by goodness I was grateful at the time In £s it does not equate - in just being kind to one another it does.

Hi Op. No judgement from me. I have a few friends who I very rarely get anything positive from being with but they are very needy and I have known and supported them for over 30 years. One of them had severe mental health issues from a childhood of horrendous abuse and had BPD. She had been actually banned from local mental health services for being abusive and aggressive. She is incredibly hard to be friends with but is cared for mainly by elderly Christians who have met her through various local churches and tried to mother her. I am nearer her age so she would clear me as her best friend but I have had horrendous abuse from her threatening to kill my children and burn my house down. She has physically assaulted me, once when I was heavily pregnant. However, if you heard about her childhood you would understand her behaviour so I limit my contact and make it in a public place that I can walk away from( which I have had to do) Someone has to love and care for such people and it is very hard. My other very difficult long term friend has learning difficulties and is profoundly deaf and very manipulative with it. I am not sure why she is manipulative but again I find spending time with her challenging but she has very few friends and I feel sad for her. Ironically, I now need to get ready to meet my friend with BPD. Have to collect her meds as the local chemists have all banned her!

No, because I'm not a patronising full of myself dick

Yes, one or two but lots of other friends. These are people I've known for a long time, don't see often but wouldn't drop

@KimDeals

Yes I do from time to time.

I don’t intend to, but I do this thing where I overcompensate for other people social awkwardness, I do my best to make it all smooth and making them feel comfortable when they are a bit out of their depth. I do this by being warm. This is then misconstrued. I’ve got a current friendship that was based on this “misunderstanding”. I get little out of it, our rapport isn’t genuine so I feel a bit disingenuous although I care for her. I could just see her socially drowning at a local event and I overcompensated as I felt bad for her (outsider in a very closed community). But it didn’t mean I was feeling a huge draw to her, no. That’s where the crossed wires comes.

Although it’s not true to describe what I do as “charitable”, if I was doing it as an act of charity it would be so much kinder. It’s just throwing a lifeline that has snowballed on occasion.

I feel like I was her when I was young! I had no idea of the nuances of these situations. I feel a bit gutted for her. What an awkward situation.

Thanks @Sanbeiji for your post.

It makes a lot of sense and you are right, I can't help them if it breaks me in the process. I have been in the position that you describe before - and yes it got worse, and yes to a point of life and death for them - the level of involvement I had for a while involved giving up my own life, and yes I prevented their death at the time, but when I began living my own life when they appeared to be in a better place ... it happened, and they died and I felt guilty. But I gave up my own life (ambitions at work, seeing friends and family, hobbies, etc.) for them at that time because I loved them so much and I got a lot from the relationship we had, it wasn't one sided, it wasn't actually draining but I didn't have freedom to live my own life for fear of what would happen.

I would like to extract myself from this 'friendship', and so far I have been firm enough to limit the amount of time, 10 ish texts in the morning, 1hour phone call once a week and a face to face meet up has been sporadic but not frequent due to covid and I haven't done anything to change this since things have opened up more. I am there at other times when ad hoc things come up to upset them and they call - I try and make the time then.

I falsely hoped it was fizzle but she does put the time and effort in to keep it alive because she needs it.

I think my guilt around it stems from my own happiness, I have a lovely family, wonderful easy happy kids, copious friends, am happy at work, am happy at home, and my only real complaint in life is that I have too much to do to fit into the day which can be stressful but in the scheme of things I recognise just how lucky I am. With this in mind my mental health is good and I feel I should try and help because whilst I find those interactions draining, I definitely have the capacity to take it on. I only have time at the end of the day on the whole so I can go to sleep after and reset for the next day so it doesn't derail a day.

I think I have a plan now (thanks to a suggestion on this thread) to continue the interaction but redirect the interactions into something jointly positive.

Not like you described but I have had a couple friends in the past whose company I enjoyed but were quite draining and mostly based on their needs, I have been aware that they are more vulnerable in one way or another (potential abusive relationship for one, on their own in the UK and very naïeve for another). I made more effort than I would do otherwise to be there for them and check in on them because I felt that it was important. In both cases it was a relief when I felt the danger was past (when one moved back to her home country and the other got out of the relationship). In both cases I would normally have stepped back from the relationships but didn’t feel I could because they didn’t have enough other support in place.

@vdbfamily - wow! utmost respect. Puts my interaction into perspective as minimal and it has never physically put me at risk.
I don't like to think of you being put at risk, but I do feel sorry for the person you support for all they have been through and am pleased someone is there for them - the events and people in our lives shape us and you have put something positive out there in the midst of a lot of negative stuff that this person has to deal with.

@Trisolaris - totally get where you are coming from

@FabriqueBelgique - I was deeply awkward as a young person too. I wonder how many parents told their kids to include me as the 'quiet kid' or how many people wondered if they should be my friend as maybe I didn't have that many. It was queried if I was autistic but never investigated or diagnosed and I have no need to find out as an adult so I left that there.
The truth was I was a deeply introverted person, completely content with my own company (still am but now I can cope with social interactions well and generally happily).
Becoming an expert in my very tiny niche field forced me to interact with people as people would come to me with problems to fix and for advice. It gave me a safe and easy way to interact with people as I was confident in what I knew and so could speak confidently and that grew my social abilities.

@BasiliskStare - doesn't sound silly, sounds like a healthy reciprocal genuine friendship.

@RockinHorseShit - I am not sure how to reply, are you reacting to my term 'charitable friendships'? - I appreciate my words were badly chosen - sorry.
Do you look out for someone you get nothing back from and no enjoyment from would have been better but seemed long as a heading!

If not this, why do you feel this way?
Are you frightened of being seen as someone others need to look out for?
Or do you have loads of genuine friendships and simply not want to commit time to look out for others you find draining?

Yes @washingmachines4 it was that phrasing I found offensive & very unkind to your friend. I'd be horrified if anyone thought of me in that way & would not want them visiting me at all. Thanks for the apology.

I guess I can relate a bit in that a lot of my old & once close friends are now rabid conspiracy theorist antivaxxers. Yes I have stepped away completely for now at least, as we couldn't be more different in this moment in time. Who knows how that will pan out once the pandemic is over

I think many people have relationships with family members where they hang out due to obligation rather than enjoyment of their company.

@RockinHorseShit - I understand, and if she thought of it like that I doubt she would want to see me either but would then be even more alone. It is a viscous cycle.
We lost a few friends over the years through different views, one became a flat earther, and one became a bigot and the same two have both become anti vaxxers. It was easier though as we no longer found common ground and it fizzled, there was no break up as such.

Neither were ever our super close friends though, more friends we enjoyed the company of once every few months - not those we would confide in or call for help. It must be hard if they were really close friends - I'm sorry you lost them.

@cherryonthecakes - So true, yes I have this too but don't view it the same way as that feels more like a duty of care, the friendship is a bit more of a choice.
Although both are obviously a choice.

I work (voluntary) for a charity to visit lonely local people. One lady has learning disabilities and noone else wanted to visit her . I see her regularly for coffee or lunch, I always pay. I do count her as a friend, but it can be occasionally challenging.

Oddly I've deliberately cut off friends and family that are not 'there' for me. But it's not because I don't care about people. It's about boundaries. Oddly, although this friendship needs more effort from me, she does respect my boundaries.

@3scape - It does make it a lot easier to continue when boundaries are in place/respected.
I am pleased you continued the friendship with her. :)

I'm not sure a completely 'charitable friendship' is actually a friendship, more like having a pet?
It sounds quite different to an actual friendship of equals where for a period of crisis one of you needs more than they can give back emotionally, which is a perfectly normal phase that some friendships go through sometimes.

I do somewhat, not fully charitable because I do genuinely like the person, but don’t have the time or inclination to properly nurture things. I think as long as it’s not taking too much resource from you, and you can keep the person at arms length, it does us no harm to be kind to one and other in this way. No need to dramatically cut someone off or ghost them, just gradually give less of yourself if it’s getting too much.

No, if I had a relationship like that, I wouldn't describe it as a friendship.