To think we will never be homeowners?

[GroundToAHalterNeck]

House prices are completely out of my reach now. DH and I are low earners due to life circumstances, no family support and a SN child requiring high levels of care.

We currently rent our home. I’ve been looking at options to buy but even the cheapest home in the cheapest areas would require a substantial deposit. Help To Buy and other government schemes also require a huge deposit we are unlikely to ever be able to save whilst paying rent too.

I met a friend for coffee this morning and she was explaining how they’re planning to upsize and how she will make a huge profit on their current home. It made me wonder how on earth first time buyers with no financial help would get on the property ladder in current times?

Is anyone else in the same position?

@ people that rent like me rely on investors buying properties so that we can live in them !!

@lollipoprainbow

@ people that rent like me rely on investors buying properties so that we can live in them !!

We private rent, because we cant get a mortgage too. Our rent is extortionate, far more than repayments would be on a mortgage. But the solution isn't private landlords. BTL only drives prices up further.

affordable housing' affordable for who??

I wonder about this too - there are thousands of "affordable" flats going up near me, and they cost the same (or more) as all the other flats. I feel it is just a word the council and developers throw about to justify cramming another huge eyesore onto what used to be a garage or printworks.

@lollipoprainbow

@ people that rent like me rely on investors buying properties so that we can live in them !!

That's why we should have more social housing and less private BTLs.

@TheYearOfSmallThings exactly !! The council just paying lip service and lining their own pockets through corrupt deals with developers.

Honestly, I think the time to buy for most people is pre children. You have to have a serious, serious income to be able to absorb the cost of a child and save up a deposit, children just affect your income in so many ways.

Many of my cousins who bought in Singapore did not even need to save for a deposit. In Singapore, there are low taxes but everyone needs to save 20% of their pay in an account earmarked for retirement spending, healthcare spending and housing and this is deducted from your payslip like taxes. The government also builds subsidized 3 bedroom flats (most of which are 1000-1300 square feet) which 85% of the population live in. 89% of singaporeans are owner occupiers. There is a wide range of housing- the cheapest cost the equivalent of £150k so a 5% deposit is only £7500. My cousins paid the same as i did for my London flat- £400k but this was in a good location; and another cousin bought a government condo in a less popular location but had a spa centre, a pool, tennis courts, jacuzzi, karaoke room also for the equivalent of £400k. Private condos cost far more than london property, maybe the equivalent of £1 million and tend to be much smaller.

I think singaporeans are reasonably happy; my grandfather bought a private house with garden as a teacher in 1970 when Singapore was very poor and had just gained independence from the British and most of the population was illiterate. My father bought a house with his parents as a graduate engineer. Today a teacher in Singapore would probably only afford a government flat but I think most people are quite realistic and know that obviously that singapore is too small for everyone to have houses!

It would be hard to have such a system in the UK but we could build mixed housing estates and perhaps have a savings scheme for low income individuals (instead of tax) that they could use for a deposit or even stuff like rental deposits.

"Affordable" Help to Buy has just funnelled taxpayer money to the big developers (who pass big donations to the Conservative Party).

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/25/george-osbornes-help-to-buy-scheme-disaster-housing-market

My kids will have at least a 10% deposit but it’s the multiplier factor that they will come up against as they don’t earn a huge amount.

We tried to look at taking out a mortgage as joint tenants with them and them basically paying our share too, but as we are late 50,s they will only give us a mortgage until we are 70 which makes a 13 year mortgage term unaffordable.

But they have to pay a similar rent!

It's an absolute joke. We did shared ownership on a very small development back in 2012 and then we were lucky enough to staircase to 100% 2 years later. It is ridiculously tough. The absolute joke when we applied for the mortgage for the shared ownership property was that only a few lenders lent on this kind of scheme and it was a lot more expensive as you were seen as more of a risk to the mortgage lender. It felt a bit like banging your head against a brick wall at the time.

@onlychildhamster

Many of my cousins who bought in Singapore did not even need to save for a deposit. In Singapore, there are low taxes but everyone needs to save 20% of their pay in an account earmarked for retirement spending, healthcare spending and housing and this is deducted from your payslip like taxes. The government also builds subsidized 3 bedroom flats (most of which are 1000-1300 square feet) which 85% of the population live in. 89% of singaporeans are owner occupiers. There is a wide range of housing- the cheapest cost the equivalent of £150k so a 5% deposit is only £7500. My cousins paid the same as i did for my London flat- £400k but this was in a good location; and another cousin bought a government condo in a less popular location but had a spa centre, a pool, tennis courts, jacuzzi, karaoke room also for the equivalent of £400k. Private condos cost far more than london property, maybe the equivalent of £1 million and tend to be much smaller.

I think singaporeans are reasonably happy; my grandfather bought a private house with garden as a teacher in 1970 when Singapore was very poor and had just gained independence from the British and most of the population was illiterate. My father bought a house with his parents as a graduate engineer. Today a teacher in Singapore would probably only afford a government flat but I think most people are quite realistic and know that obviously that singapore is too small for everyone to have houses!

It would be hard to have such a system in the UK but we could build mixed housing estates and perhaps have a savings scheme for low income individuals (instead of tax) that they could use for a deposit or even stuff like rental deposits.

I agree that part of our housing problem is the British obsession with living in a house, which puts pressure on land (and results in overpriced yet undersized, boxy homes with often almost completely uselessly sized gardens and no storage space - the subject of another recent thread on the problems with housing in the UK.) Flats here are seen as very much second rate, where you live when you can’t afford a house - to the extent there was another recent thread of “will I ever be a homeowner?” where the OP stated that they’d be embarrassed and ashamed at having to live in a small flat, even though they’d clearly never be able to afford on their salary the house they thought they deserved.

On another note, I love that your cousin’s building contains a communal karaoke room - talk about cultural priorities

@MrFlippersPancake

It's an absolute joke. We did shared ownership on a very small development back in 2012 and then we were lucky enough to staircase to 100% 2 years later. It is ridiculously tough. The absolute joke when we applied for the mortgage for the shared ownership property was that only a few lenders lent on this kind of scheme and it was a lot more expensive as you were seen as more of a risk to the mortgage lender. It felt a bit like banging your head against a brick wall at the time.

We had real issues staircasing.

The mortgage lender looked at the figures and thought it was crackers.

Our mortgage plus rent was something like £750 a month. We had a proven track record for paying, had a perfect credit rating, we were well within what we could afford otherwise with our expeditures, we had over paid our mortgage, our household income had more than doubled, we had no kids. The value of the house had even gone down. But because we couldnt raise the required 15% deposit and were no longer eligible for a first time buyer mortgage (even though it was still our first house) the lender we were with wouldn't offer us a mortgage. It was crackers.

The woman handling our case said she had never seen a case so absurd but it was down to the rules at the time and she didn't think it was remotely increasing risk to the bank - indeed quite the opposite. The reason we wanted to staircase was because of how much our rent was increasing annually with inflation and we wanted to stop that.

When the bank is telling you that they can see no earthly reason to reject you other than bureaucracy its nuts.

We eventually got a mortgage with another lender at 10% equity after a great deal of looking (because not all mortgages would take on a staircasing mortgage even though we were staircasing to 100% mortgage!!!).

The lending rules HAVE eased somewhat since then, though so in theory it shouldnt still be happening to the same degree.

But yeah, i do think it crazy. I don't think 100% mortgages should come back - a small deposit is for your own benefit too, but I do think if you can demonstrate you are already have good credit and are paying more than the mortgage on housing already, you shouldnt be being rejected on that basis.

Flats here are seen as very much second rate, where you live when you can’t afford a house I think the recent cladding scandal - where owners have been faced with massive bills to rectify the mistakes of developers and also the fact that so many flats are leasehold (so you can end up at the mercy of a greedy leaseholder) has done a lot to contribute to their reputation of being second rate when compared to a house.

Meant to say the mortgage on 100% of the property came in at £600 - £250 less than mortgage plud rent combined.

@LillianGish

Flats here are seen as very much second rate, where you live when you can’t afford a house I think the recent cladding scandal - where owners have been faced with massive bills to rectify the mistakes of developers and also the fact that so many flats are leasehold (so you can end up at the mercy of a greedy leaseholder) has done a lot to contribute to their reputation of being second rate when compared to a house.

Lenders wont give mortgages to a lot of flats either. Its not simply an issue with 'fussy first time' buyers.

@ComtesseDeSpair the karaoke room is linked to a function room where residents can host private parties. I grew up in a house but I knew that I would live in an apartment unless I lived with my parents. I had friends and relatives who all lived in apartments so I knew that living in a house was the exception rather than the norm and due to lucky circumstances i.e. grandparents bought at the right time, father chose to buy with his parents, parents also earned well.

Most London new builds are flats, but there is still a housing problem as people can't afford to buy the overpriced new builds. In Singapore, if you left it completely to the private market, we would be like Hong Kong but the government started their housing programme from the 1960s. They therefore built larger family flats. In the UK, there are fewer of such family flats. When there are such flats, they do sell well and a lot of families do like them i.e. edinburgh tenement flats and kensington mansions flats. However, they don't really exist as much outside the expensive areas of cities.

@leafcuttingwhale

Its the fault of repeated governments. They failed to invest in creating more social housing (quite the opposite) and have completed failed to cultivate a professional private rented sector, and of course not enough housing for sale is being built either.

They basically haven't got to grips with any part of the housing market.

While I agree with this, I think NIMBYism plays a huge part in this. Housing, development, etc is politically toxic, particularly in the areas new homes are needed the most. There is always a reason to object to new homes "they're in the wrong place", "they're not affordable", "they're too affordable", "building on green space", "should be a hospital there instead", etc etc etc.

I think we give far too much voice and influence to home owners and those who object to new homes and people like the OP are politically silent. Too busy and swamped to be involved in local decisions about new homes and outnumbered by affluent homeowners on a national scale. Even debate around the planning system centres around "how can the public object to development" rather than "how can the public facilitate and help shape development". We are failing people, not just our children now but voting age families and hardworking professionals

I'm not sure whether it is still the case, but it used to be that people living in social housing could pass the house onto their kids!! This was a ludicrous policy and really unfair given the enormous waiting lists.
It effectively meant that many people on high salaries ended up occupying social housing, while those in desperate need lingered on the waiting list for years. Social housing should be rigorously means tested, with people moving on once their income is over threshold.

@LillianGish majority of flats are not affected by cladding. Mainly flats built in the last 20 years. for myself, I try to buy flats which are share of freehold or at least residents' managed, long lease. My DH is a director of the management company. I try to buy pre- war flats. A lot of people also try to buy conversions/edwardian purpose built maisonettes which have private gardens. My DH doesn't like those as the soundproofing isn't so great (but to be fair probably not worse than victorian terrace).

I like apartment living as I don't need to worry about paying for gardening but yet have a communal garden, its cheaper to heat as i can 'borrow ' the heat of other flats (on the second floor) and its also cheaper even with service charge. A house of the same size would cost £200k more. I think I would always want to live in an apartment; just a bigger one if I had more money. It also feels safer, as there is more than 1 door to get through (unless the burglar is also spiderman and wants to climb the walls into my window). I have paranoia of being burglared as an intruder once entered my MIL's house when we were living there and we found a man in the attic and the police just let him go!

@LillianGish

Flats here are seen as very much second rate, where you live when you can’t afford a house I think the recent cladding scandal - where owners have been faced with massive bills to rectify the mistakes of developers and also the fact that so many flats are leasehold (so you can end up at the mercy of a greedy leaseholder) has done a lot to contribute to their reputation of being second rate when compared to a house.

As a Londoner, I’ve owned several leasehold flats for most of my adult life, as have most of my friends. It really doesn’t come with anything like the level of problem many people seem to keen to make out on threads like this. Yes, the cladding scandal has affected many flats - but that’s a very recent issue and nothing to do with the long-standing view many people seem to have of apartment living in the UK.

To continue my rant, the only way this will change is if enough people contact local councillors and their MPs to say "we want more housing, we want genuinely affordable housing (ie not just 80% of market rate) and we want you to stop kicking the can down the road to appease NIMBY orgs like CPRE and homeowners who want to maintain their own house prices"

@KeepYaHeadUp

To continue my rant, the only way this will change is if enough people contact local councillors and their MPs to say "we want more housing, we want genuinely affordable housing (ie not just 80% of market rate) and we want you to stop kicking the can down the road to appease NIMBY orgs like CPRE and homeowners who want to maintain their own house prices"

The problem is that these voices are drowned out by an equal number of voices who don’t want more housing, and certainly don’t want it to be “affordable.”

There are currently two threads started in the last 24 hours in the Property section, regarding new blocks of flats planned near the location of houses an OP wants to buy: on both of them, dozens of posters are urging the OP to forget these houses because the new blocks of flats will overlook the garden / possibly have some social housing in them / generally aren’t desirable to have near your new home.

It's really difficult, I'm in my 40s but a costly divorce for me and breakup for DH means that when we met ten years ago we were completely starting from scratch. We had owned properties, but were both in terrible negative equity because we both bought in 2007 just before the crash, so we were renting for a while after finally getting rid of those properties, which cost us thousands each.

We were so lucky that I was able to buy a very small new build using the help to buy scheme as they treated me like a first time buyer (DH isn't on the mortgage). There is no way we could have bought without it. It's not shared ownership as such but the house will never really be mine unless I can pay the government back. I will need to pay back if we sell so here we are. But I'm so grateful to have our home, because a lot of those schemes have closed now and our mortgage is hundreds of pounds less than we paid in rent every month.

Look at every single scheme OP, consider different locations maybe? I really feel for you because this could have been me too, it was just luck.

The single most important thing that can help people start out on the property ladder is to buy the first house before they have other commitments.

I agree with this. If you have childcare to pay for or if one parent goes part time I think a couple on average wages (let alone low wages) will struggle to save up for a deposit and may be refused a mortgage because of high outgoings.

Once you're on the ladder it is easier to move up even with children because your house is likely to have gone up in value so you'll have a bigger deposit.