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Being harrassed by landlord and agents - please help

80 replies

Stressedout1009 · 02/02/2022 11:40

Hi, I am really stressed out and anxious. We are in our notice period with an extreme bully of a landlord and fortunately we signed an agreement with a break clause. There has been a host of problems but we have finally given notice. The landlord has refused to give us a reference for our new rental and we were able to work around that.
The issue is the amount of agents he has handed over to who are harassing us with viewing requests. We have been very accommodating for the first month, however they have now become extremely frustrating. He has now handed it over to a new batch of agents who want to do videos and photographs. What are our rights wrt this? Do we have to allow it, and if so do they get to move and position our stuff around for the videos.
Im really at the end of it here, the agents are calling our work lines, phoning constantly and so aggressive. Yesterday, one wanted to know exactly what my reason is for not allowing a same day viewing and telling me to leave the key somewhere for him to come through on his own! Please help, I am in such a stressful situation.

OP posts:
Stressedout1009 · 02/02/2022 12:47

@Cissyandflora I am sorry you are going through this as well! It is sickening what bad landlords can get away with. Without that break clause I am sickened by what we could have faced. I am even so embarrassed to say what we are paying for this dump. The agent completely took advantage of us, not being from this country.

OP posts:
SamphiretheStickerist · 02/02/2022 12:49

[quote ponkydonkey]If there is no inventory they can't really claim for damages can they?

You would have been required to sign the inventory the day you moved in!

This is a good source of advice from the government,

www.gov.uk/private-renting[/quote]
I just want to clarify that a little bit.

With no inventory there is little that could be claimed for BUT if a property was ostensibly in good condition at the beginning of a tenancy, e.g. new viewing pictures, receipts for new carpets, decoration very cose tot he start of the tenancy, the LL would be able to claim for any obvious damage and could be awarded it.

The inventory does NOT have to be signed on the day you move in. There are no concrete laws around this in the UK. Standard procedure is that the inventory has to be prepared close to the start of the tenancy - usually 2 - 3 days prior as a maximum. Often the tenant can given a few days to sign off on it, within 7 days is the usual time frame. You should be required to sign for keys though and often that includes the inventory with 7 days to send back any further comments, after which the inventory will be deemed accepted by all parties.

It's quibbling, I know. But I get a lot of shouty people insisting I am wrong and that they don't then have to do x, y or z. Including a young man who wouldn't sign anything until he had been round the whole house with his dad, who was coming when he had finished work. Not even the key list, which was the only thing he was being asked to sign. So I drove away with the keys in my bag. The landlord called me about half an hour later and told me not to rush back... young man signed for his keys about 2 hours later than planned.

That young man had been 'reliably' informed that he didn't have to sign anything before moving into his new home and nothing I said could convince him otherwise. So I know that there are some odd ideas floating round out there!

SamphiretheStickerist · 02/02/2022 12:49

@Stressedout1009

I have just checked, it is with TDS Scheme.

The EPC certificate assessment date is November 2017.

Gas and electric?

EPC suggests they will have them, I suppose.

hivemindneeded · 02/02/2022 12:50

Be very very direct with the agents. Say: I find you calling me at work a harassment. I still pay rent and am entitled to quiet enjoyment of my home. I will allow viewings on X day at X time for X hours, once a week/fortnight/month. If you call me again at work or with any request other than the time I have stated I will withdraw that offer too. Put a note out to all agents at your agency that I will not be hassled and the more you hassle the less inclined I will feel to offer viewing times, as is my right while I am a tenant.

SamphiretheStickerist · 02/02/2022 12:51

Inventory should have been signed by you. So if you didn't sign one it doesn't exist.

Again, I want to be clear on this. An unsigned inventory does not equal NO inventory at all. If the LL or agent can show one was sent but not returned then the inventory is deemed to have been accepted as is.

FunkyPhantom · 02/02/2022 12:58

I had problems in the past regarding a landlord, frequent calls and messages etc.....wanting to do work on the place before I'd moved.

Contact your local councils housing dept. they usually have people there who deal with private landlords and will get involved, or at best give you accurate advice on how the procedure works 👍

Stressedout1009 · 02/02/2022 13:01

Just to clarify on the inventory, I requested via email for the inventory list 4 times at the start of the tenancy. On the day we moved in, the agent met us here with the keys and no list. We then contacted the landlord for the Inventory list on email, he too said he is waiting for this from the agent. We then left it as straight after that we started dealing with issues in the apartment. There is no record of anything ever being sent to us. A week after we moved in we made a list along with pictures of items damaged and dirty and sent it to the landlord, no response to that.

OP posts:
londonrach · 02/02/2022 13:02

You don't have to allow viewing s ever! Stop all viewings and enjoy quiet enjoyment till you move out

SamphiretheStickerist · 02/02/2022 13:04

@Stressedout1009

Just to clarify on the inventory, I requested via email for the inventory list 4 times at the start of the tenancy. On the day we moved in, the agent met us here with the keys and no list. We then contacted the landlord for the Inventory list on email, he too said he is waiting for this from the agent. We then left it as straight after that we started dealing with issues in the apartment. There is no record of anything ever being sent to us. A week after we moved in we made a list along with pictures of items damaged and dirty and sent it to the landlord, no response to that.
Then make sure you have those pictures, that email chain, and that will be your evidence for the TDS. It will probably also be the only timely evidence the LL has. No agent 'forgets' to send out an inventory they have actually had done.
MsSquiz · 02/02/2022 13:09

Keep every piece of written comms between you and the LL & various agents, this will be your evidence if he does try to make claims on your deposit.

Agents do have to give you at least 24 hours notice of a viewing request, but you do not have to agree if it's not convenient for you. They cannot demand keys or let themselves into the property when you have explicitly denied permission and the agents know that.

The fact that deposit is protected is excellent as anything he attempts to claim from your deposit can be disputed by you and you can provide evidence for your side and he will have to do the same. When I worked for a letting agent, 9 times out of 10 the protection scheme went with the tenant

chesirecat99 · 02/02/2022 13:09

@DynamiteFilledRadish

If your contract says you will allow viewings, your statutory (set in law) right to quiet enjoyment trumps that so you can still refuse viewings but, in theory, you might be liable for the landlord's losses if it delays the property being let

This is not true and it is out of order to state it as fact. The OP would absolutely not be liable for "losses".

It is true. It is out of order not to tell OP that there is a risk of being sued for breach of contract if she exercises her statutory right to quiet enjoyment and refuses viewings when she has agreed to contractual access. That said, I'm not aware that it has ever happened, but she should be aware of the possibility.

Shelter's advice on refusing viewings:

Check what your tenancy agreement says about access for viewings.

You don't have to allow viewings if they aren't mentioned in your contract. You could say that they must only take place at certain times.

If you refuse viewings and your agreement says you must allow access, you might find it difficult to get a reference or have problems with getting your deposit back.

CAB's advice:

However, allowing access may be a part of your contract, and breaching the terms of your contract may allow your landlord to take steps to enforce it.

pitterpatterrain · 02/02/2022 13:11

You’re in a good position re TDS with the photos at the start and the email chains

We have been through this in the past with a very aggressive landlord who was a barrister and was happy to threaten all sorts

In the end we moved out on the day planned and got our full deposit back from TDS that they had retained initially. TDS have good guidance on the website of how to claim / how to respond keeping it factual

SamphiretheStickerist · 02/02/2022 13:11

Both Shelter and CAB have been challenged on that a few times. Their wording is self protective rather than 100% accurate.

IntermittentParps · 02/02/2022 13:15

Email the agent today. Say
“ As from today’s date I am withdrawing consent for all videos, photographs or further viewings as upon consideration I have decided that allowing any of the above will interfere with my legal right to quiet enjoyment of my home. “

I agree with this.

MsSquiz · 02/02/2022 13:16

@chesirecat99 the fact that shelter state

"If you refuse viewings and your agreement says you must allow access, you might find it difficult to get a reference or have problems with getting your deposit back."

Is ridiculous! Not allowing viewings bears no effect on the return of a deposit. A deposit must be used for repairs or work to make good at the property, and then cover potential non payment of rent, not as a punishment for not allowing viewings.
It's a very subjective point - right to quiet enjoyment and can cover a whole host of reasons. I would suggest one of those reasons for the OP is that she is not getting quiet enjoyment thanks to the constant harassment from various agents for photos, videos & viewings

chesirecat99 · 02/02/2022 13:33

@SamphiretheStickerist

Both Shelter and CAB have been challenged on that a few times. Their wording is self protective rather than 100% accurate.
Yes. On the other "side", the NRLA advice is pretty wishy washy too. They advise just to wait until the tenants' leave if access for viewings are refused despite the tenant having signed a contract agreeing to viewings because of "the cost and complexity" of going to court.

As I said in one of my posts, I don't believe it has ever been tested in the courts but OP should be aware that it is not 100% clear cut because of that. I would put money on the landlord/agent at least threatening to take her to court...

AskingforaBaskin · 02/02/2022 13:45

@CSIblonde

As pp's said you have a 24/7 legal right to "quiet enjoyment" of the property. Legally they have to give 24 hrs notice of any inspection visits or viewings: & you can insist on being there, or, you can refuse. And they categorically can't touch or move your possessions.
A tenant can deny all inspections and viewing under the peaceful enjoyment.

The 24 hour notice does not trump law. Regardless of what is in the contract.

Stressedout1009 · 02/02/2022 14:24

Thank you all for the advice. Shelter and CAB both are very unclear about the deposit and what your actual rights are.

OP posts:
JustLyra · 02/02/2022 14:27

However, allowing access may be a part of your contract, and breaching the terms of your contract may allow your landlord to take steps to enforce it.

To be clear on this - the only thing the LL can do is go to court and ask for the clause to be enforced

There's nothing else. They can't demand access or let themselves in. The steps are go to court and ask for an enforcement order.

SamphiretheStickerist · 02/02/2022 14:43

@Stressedout1009

Thank you all for the advice. Shelter and CAB both are very unclear about the deposit and what your actual rights are.
Sadly they are not any kind of champions for renters.

Shelter in particular has has been actively, and occasionally aggressively, active in a number of actions that were actually to the detriment of renters. Their priority is /was homelessness.

And CAB doesn't have experts on its central team any more - if if ever did have. Like many others they defer to Shelter.

To be honest the best and most impartial free advice you will get would be on the renting forum of landlordzone. The old lags in there may well be landlords but there is only one thing they hate more than a fuckwit tenant. That's a fuckwit landlord. Watching them debate the finer points of how a tenant can get a landlord to back off is quite, quite amazing.

I usually recommend them to anyone with complex issues.

ivykaty44 · 02/02/2022 14:51

I’d just tell the agent they may want to consider waiting till you vacate as you will be very truthful about the landlord to any prospective tenants

Cissyandflora · 02/02/2022 15:21

[quote Stressedout1009]@Cissyandflora I am sorry you are going through this as well! It is sickening what bad landlords can get away with. Without that break clause I am sickened by what we could have faced. I am even so embarrassed to say what we are paying for this dump. The agent completely took advantage of us, not being from this country.[/quote]
Well honestly it can happen to anyone. I’m from this country but circumstances quite complicated. So I was overcharged plus have to pay 6m up front. Agree to pay for professional cleaning in the property weekly! Allow viewings and allow the landlord to come when she wants. I’m now starting to fight back.

KindleBeKind · 02/02/2022 15:33

I'm a landlord and cringe at the behaviour of some. However, there are often two sides to the story. Why has your landlord refused you a reference? This is telling - have you paid your rent on time every month? If there is bad feeling between you then he is protecting his asset?

I am genuinely sympathetic if your landlord is the horror you claim. But what has made him this difficult? You have no loyalty to the new letting agents you don't even have to answer their calls. Just deal with your own agent (if there is one) and your landlord.

Nanny0gg · 02/02/2022 15:39

@Stressedout1009

If we refuse these photography and videos can he withhold our deposit as we would be breaching the agreement? Theres alot of information about 'quiet enjoyment' but im struggling to find anything clear wrt your notice period.
If you're really worried ask Shelter for advice.

But I think your landlord is on very shaky ground

IntermittentParps · 02/02/2022 15:59

@ivykaty44

I’d just tell the agent they may want to consider waiting till you vacate as you will be very truthful about the landlord to any prospective tenants
Good idea!