To feel helpless in effecting government change.

[HavenLane]

Polite title, but BJ needs to go. He's making idiots of us all. He lies, he treats us as if we are stupid, he oversells even the things he thinks he's done well.

How do we bring about his demise?

Feel like marching!

@Booklover3. Ooo tennis or football? 😉

Even if he goes his successor will be chosen by the same 100k former UKIP members who joined the Conservatives to force a hard Brexit on us.

I saw a piece on Sky News yesterday and they were interviewing people drinking in a pub on Monday afternoon in Dudley, West Midlands (Red Wall seat). Many of them were of the belief that Boris had done nothing wrong and it didn’t matter because he’d delivered Brexit and a brilliant Covid response.

If this bunch of pension age/non working single issue (Brexit) voters is representative of the Tory membership then if Boris goes, there’s a good chance the next PM could be even worse. All they’ll have to do is spout jingoism and they’re in.

There’s a lot of people who believe we’ve already hit rock bottom so it can’t get any worse but we’re still the 6th richest country in the world. Ask many immigrants or first generation Brits - they will tell you there’s a lot further we can fall, they know this from experience. Our rich history will not save us from poor governance. Working people who rely on a strong economy and good governance need to join the Conservatives and vote to push the party back to the centre with sensible traditional conservative values and leadership.

Out of interest, who do you want to replace him OP?

Rishi (Twelve Homes) Sunak?

Gove?

Patel?

Truss?

I'm not sure myself which I'd go for.

Perhaps instead of a military coup, we could have a medical coup? Install Sir Chris Whitty or JVT?

I don't think marching is going to affect much.

The Conservatives tend to dump leaders who they don't think will win elections, or sometimes ones they don't think reflect them. Boris is walking close to the edge, perhaps, on the latter element. But not on the former, mainly because none of the other parties is offering something enough people will change their vote for.

What really needs to happen is that Labour needs to make themselves electable, at least make a good show, and then the Tories will ditch Boris if he is a liability.

How can voters get through to the LP? I have no idea, nothing so far has clued them in.

[quote Littlesnail]@ThePlantsitter

Foodbanks www.debatingeurope.eu/2021/10/21/why-do-we-still-need-foodbanks-in-europe/#.Yfh2vurP0uU

Doctors "Health workforce imbalances and shortages are a major concern in the European Region" WHO www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/Health-systems/health-workforce/data-and-statistics

Housing crisis Europe from OECD www.oecd-forum.org/posts/tackling-europe-s-housing-crisis

Where's your evidence of a single developed country that doesn't have an issue with doctors, food banks or any type of housing?

These are global issues. I don't even want to think about the US tbh. We never have enough.[/quote]
Yeah, these aren't just the UK for sure. Canada is struggling in all these areas, with health care is probably in worse shape in many ways than the UK. And there have been lots of changes in government over the past decades.

Truth is there is no such thing as a politician with integrity. Even those who start out with the right intentions invariably move off in the opposite direction.

There are politicians with integrity in all parties but a lot of the Tory ones stood down at thr last election because they had integrity.

Getting rid of Boris is not really the issue, he is not secure and it wouldn't take much BUT there has to be a credible alternative for people to make that leap.

And at the moment I can't see one.

@AlternativePerspective

Agree that saying the country is crumbling is over dramatic, and tbh is mostly media fed, the media who are lapping all this up.

The same media who led the frenzy two years ago to call for Dominic Cumming’s head when he broke COVID rules and who are now upholding him as some kind of paragon of truth and integrity.

Boris Johnson hasn’t changed. People knew what he was and they voted for him anyway. And the likelihood is they will do so again, because people have short memories.

Truth is there is no such thing as a politician with integrity. Even those who start out with the right intentions invariably move off in the opposite direction.

I am 100% certain that any other government would have made their own cock-ups, and that whoever was in charge now we would be calling for them to quit.

No-one is upholding Cummings as anything of the sort. But he does know where bodies are buried and the Grey report has shown many of his claims to be true.

Sad isn't it that the most frequent argument for keeping a disgraceful PM is that all the other in his party are even worse. Because that is what is being said on every of these threads.

Agreed @countrygirl99.

I did read the other day that Tom Tugendhat may stand against Johnson were he to stand down. I don’t know that much about him but I think I’d prefer him to Sunak, Gove, Truss or Patel.

At this stage I’d prefer the real Worzel Gummidge to any of them rather than the fake Worzel Gummidge currently in situ.

Yanbu! I am fuming. WTF is going on when a PM is using the fact that he's getting investigated by police as a shield?!

It's not just the parties it's all the other contemptuous bollocks, vip lane PPE, gold wallpaper, the fraud on the covid loans being written off.

I still believe in being an honest person. We need to expect better.

@mum2jakie @Speakuptomakeyourselfheard @HavenLane

The petition you posted doesn’t make any mention of the parties and his abject dishonesty - a current one, on the back of all we’ve found out needs to be launched.

@Tealightsandd

Out of interest, who do you want to replace him OP?

Rishi (Twelve Homes) Sunak?

Gove?

Patel?

Truss?

I'm not sure myself which I'd go for.

That’s not a reason to keep him in. If we had a decent process in place to get rid of shite leaders then they would go too, if they were shite.

So, I've emailed the speaker of the house and my MP. (No use at all, very safe Tory seat - he wasn't even in the commons yesterday).

Those two actions are so little. Nuisance value only I suppose, though decent MP's do take note of constituent view.

Now what....🤷🏻‍♀️

Pleased to see that others feel aggrieved to and would march.
I would need a Saturday - 'cos I'm public sector with absolutely no time in the working week for any other life ( and certainly not for alcohol and a party).

I'd march. I've never done a march in my life, but I would over this. There is no proper democracy in this country.

The whole thing has turned into a tawdry shitshow. I'm totally sickened.

Was thinking just this morning that I'd march against him

If we had a decent process in place to get rid of shite leaders then they would go too, if they were shite.

We do have a decent process. It's called a general election.

@Peridot1

Agreed *@countrygirl99*.

I did read the other day that Tom Tugendhat may stand against Johnson were he to stand down. I don’t know that much about him but I think I’d prefer him to Sunak, Gove, Truss or Patel.

At this stage I’d prefer the real Worzel Gummidge to any of them rather than the fake Worzel Gummidge currently in situ.

If you don't know anything about him, how can you say he'd be better?

But here you go...
www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25374/thomas_tugendhat/tonbridge_and_malling/votes

[quote Littlesnail]@ThePlantsitter All the problems you mention (excluding the lorries) are certainly Europe wide. They're global issues really, not simply UK ones.
No country feels it has enough doctors, short waiting lists, no food banks, readily available social housing..... we never have 'enough'.[/quote]
This is simply not true - Have you been to Denmark? Finland? Even France?

The problem with a march is that it could play right into his hands.

Because the reality is that not enough people feel strongly enough about this to protest.

A lot of people are still satisfied with Brexit, not least because of how Europe initially reacted over the vaccines, and the fact that Europe have in fact had much harder lockdowns and now have far more rigorous covid protocols such as the need for vaccine passes than we do. A lot of people would absolutely not agree with the idea of permanent COVID passes. My DS went to France last week and there you have to present a covid pass even to go on a train. I absolutely know how that would go down here. And Europe have far higher numbers than we currently do.

There may be bigger issues here but the truth is that most of what the media are focusing on is the Downing Street parties, which in the grand scheme of things are irrelevant. There’s a long way to go to get to the point of people protesting over anything else. So if you marched you might get a few hundred, maybe a couple of thousand, but it could seriously blow up in your face if that happened and could push more votes towards the conservatives.

It really is best to wait it out until the next election, and hope that the opposition get their act together. Because if they don’t, then it’s likely the Tory government will get back in.

This is about far more than a few people’s thoughts, the opposition need to get on board with this and put up something credible to make themselves more electable, and currently they’re just not doing that.

I’ve felt this way for years. I voted remain and have never voted for the tories (I never would) but there you go, democracy is a bitch.

@HavenLane

Can’t you start a proper petition on Change.Org? The one posted on this thread does not address the issues we are speaking about, and despite it having rising numbers, they will brush it off because it focuses on the start of the pandemic! It was launched in 2020 and has not been updated.

A well worded petition on there with all of us sending it viral would be a resounding slap in the middle of the HoC.

And unlike this farcical Met investigation, won’t cost the taxpayer even more via policing, which a March would.

I would also march.

I'm just going to vote Labour in the next election.