Mother says she was virtually groped by three male characters within seconds of entering Facebook's online world Metaverse

[PrincessNikla]

On a visit this month, the mother-of-four entered the ‘lobby’ – a virtual space serving as an entry point. But within seconds she was pursued by the men’s avatars, who groped her, subjected her to a stream of sexual innuendo and took screen shots of the attack for several minutes as she tried to flee.

She had to tear off her headset – which covers her eyes and allows her to see the metaverse as her avatar sees it – to end the ordeal.

While she could not actually feel the avatars’ hands, Mrs Patel has suffered from anxiety since the attack – and fears for the safety of her three teenage girls and other women in this lawless virtual world.

She said: ‘I entered the Horizon Venues metaverse as an avatar who looked just like me – middle-aged, blonde and dressed in jeans and a long-sleeved top.

‘The space you enter is a lobby, like a theatre foyer. Within 60 seconds, three male avatars – who all had male voices – came towards me and touched me inappropriately.

‘Before I knew what was happening, they were taking screen shots of them touching my avatar, both my upper and lower body. While doing that, they said things like, “Don’t pretend you don’t love it.”

‘I tried to move away but they followed me. I didn’t know who these people were or have the time to stay and investigate.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10455417/Mother-43-avatar-groped-three-male-characters-online-Metaverse.html

I haven't been on there, so cannot comment on how often this happens and if she was unlucky or if it happens a lot. I agree that the 'men' (if they were men as they were avatars) were completely out of order.

I totally agree it is horrible, but 'an ordeal' ? 'suffered from anxiety' since the attack? How hard would it be to just take off your headset to get out of it?

Exactly as @blackamericanonosugar says, feeling violated or threatened isn't exclusively about someone actually being present. The shock of getting a dick pic is real regardless of the fact you can block the sender (as a very small example).

I don't know this person but I think I would certainly be shocked and upset at the very clear and unfiltered view of just how much (some) men can view women as being around for their entertainment as well as shocked at how easily they can drop all the veneer that society requires. I wouldn't feel that my physical body had been violated but I would definitely feel shocked and probably upset by the experience.

@Vavavrrooom

The Avatar looked just like her.

The things they were doing were things women experience in real life. It’s not a huge leap for her to be taking it personally and feeling that, they (the men behind those avatars) would have no issues behaving the same way to her in real life and for her to now be thinking about other young women/her daughters experiencing that.

There is huge upset on here when someone personally attacks a person and these are just words -no images at all!

I strongly agree.

Whether it was adults or children (as suggested by a PP), the permissive and entitled ease with which this assault was orchestrated and carried out is deeply concerning.

This was an awful thing to happen and must have been traumatic. I don’t see the relevance of her being a mother though.

@PrincessNikla

If it was a phone call, then thats a real life connection.

Every time the phone rings, you would be anxious and unhappy.

With vr (and gaming) there is no link between you and the real world, you are not in physical danger. You can change your character, the names, etc.

Obviously i would rather be somewhere this didn't have to happen.

If I was in charge of vr, I would make everyone go in a world with no other real for x time and see how they behaved, and also randomly do this as well so you could get the perpetrators who do this.

I'm sure that can be minimised too though. You can simply change your number after a prank phone call from someone random, just like you're saying this woman can leave the VR world (or block the perpertators which I'm guessing is an option).

I don't know why the need to minimise misogony - these are real men doing it behind the animated characters.

OP maybe it helps to understand how it coukd be so upsetting by looking at how real VR can feel. So my example would be that VR is a likely new way to perform exposure therapy. So instead of facing a fear of flying by visualising going through an airport, it's possible for it to be done using VR. It's still undergoing research, but because it's make you feel you're really there/doing that it's very likely to be able to be therapeutically useful.

Also, totally different, but VR is the new frontier for porn. Usually aimed at men, but the idea is it is so real that it causes arousal etc.

So putting that in this context, it seems it definitely could feel extremely real. And then, especially if the woman had previously experienced real life sexual assault, it would be likely that her fright/flight/freeze/fawn response could be activated. When that happens, unless we're very trained (ie military level training) we really don't stand a chance if behaving "rationally".

The point is that either it's virtual reality or it's "just a cartoon". The more real VR gets, the worse it's going to be for survivors of sexual assault, and young women, unless they're in a highly moderated environment.

She felt what she felt. She experienced what she experienced. And she is feeling since what she is feeling.

She didn't 'deserve' it because she was too slow to respond in shock and remove her headset.

I don't think any of that is up for discussion, and find the ongoing minimising and tone-deafness of the OP and her attempts to debate this woman's reality rather disturbing.

Depressing but not a surprise. I'm disgusted that Facebook haven't put in place something to stop this, it's vile. They have control over it, there's no excuse that it can be allowed to happen.
Found an article from December, a womans avatar was groped, FB didn't provide a statment but in a different interview vice president of Horizons blamed the woman for not using the safety features

"He said that after Meta reviewed the incident, the company determined that the beta tester did not use the safety features built into Horizon Worlds, which include the ability to block someone from interacting with you."
So she was supposed to block someone before she knew the would virtually sexually assult her?

A new one to add to the list: Virtual victim blaming.

@Hospedia

"She should have pressed the exit button" - is this the VR version of "she should have just said no"?

Exactly.

OP, VR is not like playing a game on a normal screen. The clue is in the name. Virtual reality. It feels real, you're immersed in it and actions feel very much morr real. They're happening to you. That's the whole point of VR, to make you feel that it's real.

You're minimising this woman's experience. You should be as worried as she is about what this might do to young teenaged girls, and what it says about how other players are using these games.

This seems awful. Firstly the point of VR is surely that it's as close to a 'real' experience as technology allows, so that 'realness' doesn't stop if something bad is happening.

Secondly, I am just so fed up and angry at how technology is so frequently used for male gratification involves degrading, attacking or humiliating women in some way. Not just for what this says about (some) men and their basic instincts and fantasies, but in the potential to damage the way those involved might see women's boundaries in real life. Very depressing.

If there are no rules other than opt out safe zone etc I could see it becoming the basest of human behaviour pretty quickly

As pp put it starkly people paying based on sexual violence etc

www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/next/amp/2021/12/17/sexual-assault-has-already-started-in-meta-s-horizon-worlds-metaverse

OP, VR is not like playing a game on a normal screen. The clue is in the name. Virtual reality. It feels real, you're immersed in it and actions feel very much morr real. They're happening to you. That's the whole point of VR, to make you feel that it's real.

Exactly. It’s not just in front of you it’s all around you.

Secondly, I am just so fed up and angry at how technology is so frequently used for male gratification involves degrading, attacking or humiliating women in some way.

Me too purpleplan

This should not be acceptable, not when it can be controlled, girls are growing up immersed in the online world, VR will become more and more common place. Why should we have to put up with men doing this in VR? Shrugging shoulders saying oh it happens all the time. It shouldn't.

@Wreath21

While something like this happening would be very distressing it is Daily Fail article and they are among those very keen to deter people from using the internet because waa, it's full of sexual deviants and allows the lower orders to communicate with each other away from the control of their betters... So the report may be exaggerated and include factual errors - as PP are saying, users of the system are given advice on how to deal with poor behaviour from other users...

So the problem isn't that they wanted to do it, the problem is the victim not reacting properly.

That's a weird way to react!

Oh. It's you. Amazing how often I see trans activists minimising sexual assault against women in general.

@Hospedia

Why are you wanting to minimise this womans feelings on it rather than being angry about the men who thought it was acceptable behaviour?

This.

There was an article in the Times or the Telegraph a few days ago about Metaverse. Their female reporter experienced similar vile and misogynistic behaviour from male players.

Except for intermittent MNing, I don't have social media accounts anymore because it ended up feeling like I was giving endless disgusting men from all over the world the ability to sexually harass me.

Playing RPG games with chat? Lewd messages. Linked In? A hook-up site, apparently. A leading gardening forum, FFS? Apparently, a woman opening an account on there = her wanting to be sent lewd messages and pictures of tiny, ugly penises.

This sort of news story just cements that. I don't of course think all women should quit online spaces, but for me personally, it was healthier to get back to reality and thereby make myself less vulnerable to attack.

I do realise that probably sounds like an argument for segregated female quarters, headscarves, rape alarms, women's only gyms, and various other things that in an ideal world would not exist.

@celiamary

Another piece of new technology I won't try to use then. Nokia phones anyone?

Lovely faithful old Bricks! I had one for years, boring but safe. People still do use them. I called mine Mr Brickolage.

It’s sounds horrible and those individuals are really bad for doing it. However, we run the risk of watering down how awful sexual assault is by comparing this to it. This women could have shut her computer or put the phone down while someone experiencing actual sexual assault couldn’t.

A similar incident was reported in this article.

As per Meta's response, there are built-in ways to block someone from interacting with you which the person did not use. It was useful for Meta to see that blocking wasn't used, because it lets them see they need to make the blocking mechanism easier to find/use.

This is what I'd expect from a fairly new platform - they will implement ways to combat stuff like this. When the troublemakers are instantly blocked & reported, it will become a lot less interesting for them.

I really can't fathom how someone can be traumatised by a pretend event that didn't actually happen in real life. It's like being traumatised by Tom being hit over the head by Jerry when you are watching cartoons.

I’ve cried when a character dies in a film. I know it’s not real. I know it’s an actor, I know it’s fake blood. I know I’m sitting in my sofa at home watching it on my tv and it isn’t really happening . Doesn’t mean I’m not emotionally engaged with the story.

This woman experienced a point of view sexual assault when she wasn’t expecting it. She heard real men say vile things about how she was really enjoying it. And now she’s being blamed for her very human reaction.

[quote PrincessNikla]@MrsTrumpton - did you miss that line in the above.

Great point about raising awareness on the chance of this happening to others.

@Hospedia -
Press the exit button / should have said no - thats not the same, exiting would have removed her from any 'danger' instantly, saying no doesnt have the same effect

Playing male characters: that doesnt mean they were male. When I used to game, I preferred female characters, but others I played with played the opposite, the whole point is you can be someone you are not in real life if you want to. I played elves and gnomes, I am neither of these in real life.[/quote]
But the behaviour is patently male. Statistically, observably, experientially, anecdotally, realistically male.

And this kind of crap, and the passive acceptance of it, the blaming of individual women not making the decision to simply leave, also means that it is yet another area if technology that women will bee excluded from. Excluded from using, excluded from developing, excluded from nurturing.

It will become like many other cyber areas that women just avoid. Because of male behaviour.

And no, NAMALT, but far too many are. And far too many excuse it. And far too many women also work hard at excusing it, explaining it away, denying it for what it is. Male behaviour!

@LH1987

It’s sounds horrible and those individuals are really bad for doing it. However, we run the risk of watering down how awful sexual assault is by comparing this to it. This women could have shut her computer or put the phone down while someone experiencing actual sexual assault couldn’t.

No. It just highlights that, when it comes to dehumanising women, to traumatising them, assaulting them, men don't care where they are. Any opportunity accepted.

@LH1987

It’s sounds horrible and those individuals are really bad for doing it. However, we run the risk of watering down how awful sexual assault is by comparing this to it. This women could have shut her computer or put the phone down while someone experiencing actual sexual assault couldn’t.

I've never thought that people who used to be traumatised by obscene phone calls weren't entitled to be traumatised by them.

It's a throwback to when women weren't supposed to be frightened by stalking because it was just someone being passionate or over-kenn. Nor upset by sexual harassment before the term existed and the relevant HR policies introduced to inform colleagues that they weren't supposed to behave that way because it wasn't 'rough housing' and 'banter' it was an offence.

Oh. It's you. Amazing how often I see trans activists minimising sexual assault against women in general
bit of a dickish response to someone just because they post in support of trans rights on here!
I do too and voted and commented for YABU so have yet another eye roll

As pp say, if you are feeling uncomfortable you can exit instantly....?

Sure, yes.

As you can in real life too: if you aren't happy with being groped by male strangers upon walking into a lobby area, then you can just leave the lobby.

If you don't like lewd comments being shouted at you by male strangers as you walk down the street then just leave, and don't walk down the street. If you keep walking about outside then you probably quite like the attention.

I mean, women always have the option to leave, except in the few situations where they are being physically restrained. And even then, did you really fight hard enough? Because if no part of you was enjoying it, you'd probably have fought harder and got away. So were you enjoying it, just a little bit?

Etc etc.

And eventually, the world for women becomes so small, because we can't exist in public or in male company without tacitly accepting some level of threat of sexual harrassment/assault; which means we wanted it.

The online world is just like the real world, except that the men there have more protection from any consequences due to anonymity & lack of criminal laws applying to theirbehaviour, and therefore they are even more overt and aggressive.