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Original poster

Mother says she was virtually groped by three male characters within seconds of entering Facebook's online world Metaverse

274 replies

PrincessNikla · 30/01/2022 12:25

On a visit this month, the mother-of-four entered the ‘lobby’ – a virtual space serving as an entry point. But within seconds she was pursued by the men’s avatars, who groped her, subjected her to a stream of sexual innuendo and took screen shots of the attack for several minutes as she tried to flee.

She had to tear off her headset – which covers her eyes and allows her to see the metaverse as her avatar sees it – to end the ordeal.

While she could not actually feel the avatars’ hands, Mrs Patel has suffered from anxiety since the attack – and fears for the safety of her three teenage girls and other women in this lawless virtual world.

She said: ‘I entered the Horizon Venues metaverse as an avatar who looked just like me – middle-aged, blonde and dressed in jeans and a long-sleeved top.

‘The space you enter is a lobby, like a theatre foyer. Within 60 seconds, three male avatars – who all had male voices – came towards me and touched me inappropriately.

‘Before I knew what was happening, they were taking screen shots of them touching my avatar, both my upper and lower body. While doing that, they said things like, “Don’t pretend you don’t love it.”

‘I tried to move away but they followed me. I didn’t know who these people were or have the time to stay and investigate.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10455417/Mother-43-avatar-groped-three-male-characters-online-Metaverse.html

I haven't been on there, so cannot comment on how often this happens and if she was unlucky or if it happens a lot. I agree that the 'men' (if they were men as they were avatars) were completely out of order.

I totally agree it is horrible, but 'an ordeal' ? 'suffered from anxiety' since the attack? How hard would it be to just take off your headset to get out of it?

OP posts:
Original poster
PrincessNikla · 30/01/2022 14:59

I am reading all the responses for anyone who is interested (I mean I am not just brushing off the replies)

I admit I hadn't thought about anonymous attacks as being so damaging. I'm still on the fence about if it should have been classed as a sexual assault (for the same reasons as someone said above, is it diluting the seriousness of actual physical SA)

I am glad that someone pointed out about raising awareness

So do we think a woman will start a VR location that is safe for women?

OP posts:
VelvetChairGirl · 30/01/2022 14:59

So its 3d tea bagging, online spaces never change

XenoBitch · 30/01/2022 15:02

@PrincessNikla

I am reading all the responses for anyone who is interested (I mean I am not just brushing off the replies)

I admit I hadn't thought about anonymous attacks as being so damaging. I'm still on the fence about if it should have been classed as a sexual assault (for the same reasons as someone said above, is it diluting the seriousness of actual physical SA)

I am glad that someone pointed out about raising awareness

So do we think a woman will start a VR location that is safe for women?

I am in FB group for women who love VR, and they often do private events/rooms in VR for the members. It is safe, and always laid back (and fun!).

I read the article in your OP, and it seems the lady is working on an educational metaverse for young teens. That sounds like a great idea.

Cailleachian · 30/01/2022 15:03

This article from the 90s is worth reading, it was the first time that "virtual rape" was documented.

I used to hang around LambaMOO at the time, atlhough I wasnt online at the time of the incident. It was quite shocking and talked about for many weeks.

juliandibbell.com/articles/a-rape-in-cyberspace/

PearPickingPorky · 30/01/2022 15:04

^What safeguarding would you want? It is already against Meta/Oculus terms to allow someone under the age of 13 to use it. Facebook Horizons is 18+. I know someone who has had her account blocked because she let her 5 year old go on it. People can and do get their accounts blocked for bad behaviour. It is easy record the behaviour, block the person, then report it. I am not sure what else can be done.*

How about make it a priority to block men who behave in this way towards anyone from using it, whether they are over 13 or not. 15/18/35/60 year old women don't want to be descended upon by creepy men either. Only allow men to use it if they are going to behave themselves. And one strike and they're out.

XenoBitch · 30/01/2022 15:05

@PearPickingPorky

^What safeguarding would you want? It is already against Meta/Oculus terms to allow someone under the age of 13 to use it. Facebook Horizons is 18+. I know someone who has had her account blocked because she let her 5 year old go on it. People can and do get their accounts blocked for bad behaviour. It is easy record the behaviour, block the person, then report it. I am not sure what else can be done.*

How about make it a priority to block men who behave in this way towards anyone from using it, whether they are over 13 or not. 15/18/35/60 year old women don't want to be descended upon by creepy men either. Only allow men to use it if they are going to behave themselves. And one strike and they're out.

They do get blocked already.
JulesRimetStillGleaming · 30/01/2022 15:06

I hate playing any online games where strangers can talk to me. I usually disable that feature.

So to have three men talking to her through her headset saying sexually abusive things to her, whether or not she could physically feel them, would be extremely distressing and intimidating.

It's the fact that men feel entitled to do whatever the hell they want.

OP do you really think you would laugh this off in her situation? It's not a game - these are real people talking to her.

Original poster
PrincessNikla · 30/01/2022 15:07

@TheGreatATuin

If a group of men deliberately target and sexually harass a woman, whether online or offline, and your immediate reaction is, 'Yes, but she should have...' then you need to take a hard look at yourself.
That wasn't my first reaction.

We live in a shitty world, and we are all doing our best to bring up young people to respect each other, and some of us are not doing as well as we should. I also teach my dc to protect themselves, from as much as I can.

I have sons, I teach them not to put themselves in danger of gangs, and to walk away from aggro, to ignore the bullies. Yes in an ideal world I wouldn't have to and yes I am sick of it

OP posts:
Rosebel · 30/01/2022 15:08

The men aviators were out of order but I'm not sure sexual assault is the right term. She wasn't actually assaulted. It was her aviator. Cartoons can't be accused of sexual assault.

Jackofallsorts · 30/01/2022 15:08

Just don't go into the "meta verse"?

PsychCounsellingStudent · 30/01/2022 15:08

When a unknown approaches you and abuses you in text on Facebook it can be traumatic even if both parties are not identifyable... We would be tempted to report to the police because its a offence.
Who knows if its a kid in their mums basement or a predator
Can you see the similarities with VR attacks and abusive Facebook posts

Yeah yeah we can ignore
But if it was that easy our younger population wouldnt be taking bullying so personally and self harming

FatFilledTrottyPuss · 30/01/2022 15:08

@XenoBitch

VR headsets are not meant to be used by anyone under 13. This is in the ToS that you will have signed when you activated them.
Thanks. I guess I did know this really because it’s linked to Facebook/Meta so we’ve been naive, (although ds has just turned 13 I couldn’t be bothered to put their ages). Dd is just 11 and I think we misguidedly thought VR would be safer than this. I’ll just have to make sure she only plays with friends or us.
VestofAbsurdity · 30/01/2022 15:09

@TheGreatATuin

If a group of men deliberately target and sexually harass a woman, whether online or offline, and your immediate reaction is, 'Yes, but she should have...' then you need to take a hard look at yourself.
This in spades.

The victim blaming and cries of well, she could have/should have just done.. are so revoltingly misogynistic.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Disgusting perverted misogynistic men behave like disgusting perverted misogynistic men and equally misogynistic women victim blame and are dismissive of the victimised woman.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 30/01/2022 15:10

If a group of men deliberately target and sexually harass a woman, whether online or offline, and your immediate reaction is, 'Yes, but she should have...' then you need to take a hard look at yourself.

That wasn't my first reaction

Yes it was, your OP said
How hard would it be to just take off your headset to get out of it?
What's that saying then if you're not saying she should have just took her headphones off, it's not that hard?!

XenoBitch · 30/01/2022 15:12

Thanks. I guess I did know this really because it’s linked to Facebook/Meta so we’ve been naive, (although ds has just turned 13 I couldn’t be bothered to put their ages). Dd is just 11 and I think we misguidedly thought VR would be safer than this. I’ll just have to make sure she only plays with friends or us

You can cast what your kids are playing to the TV/phone so you can see and hear what they are too.

Lindy2 · 30/01/2022 15:14

I can't say I fully understand what the Meta Verse is but it's high time these social media/virtual world platforms got their houses in order.

This type of thing just simply shouldn't be able to happen.

With the technology available to them an instant deletion of any character attempting to touch another character without consent surely isn't that hard.

VestofAbsurdity · 30/01/2022 15:16

@Jackofallsorts

Just don't go into the "meta verse"?
How about men just behave themselves in the "meta verse", radical notion, eh?
XenoBitch · 30/01/2022 15:18

@Lindy2

I can't say I fully understand what the Meta Verse is but it's high time these social media/virtual world platforms got their houses in order.

This type of thing just simply shouldn't be able to happen.

With the technology available to them an instant deletion of any character attempting to touch another character without consent surely isn't that hard.

Avatars don't really touch each other. If you put your hand to the head of another avatar, there is no resistance or feedback. Your hand just goes through their head. It would be hard to be able to move around the rooms if people were able to get in the way.
Blossom64265 · 30/01/2022 15:21

My very first thought when I saw the into of the meta-verse was that women would need to hide their sex to enter.

Having the ability to exit quickly is irrelevant. This is the direction companies want the internet to evolve. Imagine trying to log on to do a bit of banking or buy some groceries and having to put up with this to get your business done.

wobytide · 30/01/2022 15:22

So in response to an attack she experienced this month she is creating an alternative that she has been working on since 2020 according to Companies House. It's evident that the "Metaverse" has issues and needs to get its controls in order but this article feels like some sort of marketing pitch disguised as a story now

"She is now creating Kabuni, her own educational metaverse for children aged eight to 16, with stricter parental controls.
‘This technology will be prevalent in our children’s futures, so my mission is to create safe and secure virtual-reality experiences,’ she said."

XenoBitch · 30/01/2022 15:23

How about men just behave themselves in the "meta verse", radical notion, eh?

This.
There is already a reporting/blocking system in place in VR. It should be a fun way to pass the time, or meet people. It should not be somewhere that you get sexually harassed in (I wont call it sexual assault.. I mean , you can "kill" other players in VR too).

CaptSkippy · 30/01/2022 15:26

Sexual harassment already ruins the experience if it's a regular online game. I can only imagine how much more it would suck if through VR you experience being in the middle of this.

Sure you can take off your headset and not participate. When it comes to real life you can also carry pepperspray in your purse, not go out at night, double lock your doors, always let your friends and family know where you are going and when you are safely at home again, cross the street when there is no one around and you see a man coming towards you, paint your nails with nailpolish that changes color if your drink is drugged, and so on and so on.

If the metaverse gets big and becomes, for example, a requirement for employment, it creates yet one more roadblock for women to participate fully with all aspects off life.

But, sure, it's fine. Just tell women to "protect themselves" or live in a cage. We are not fully human anyway, why would we even want freedom? /s

Bagamoyo1 · 30/01/2022 15:34

It’s disgusting that people do this sort of thing, but it’s not exactly sexual assault is it.

When I was 17 I was raped in a shop doorway by a stranger who said he’d kill me if I didn’t do what he said. He held his hands round my throat throughout, just in case I doubted his word. He kicked and punched me, ripped my clothes off and raped me. I tried to flag down a passing car, but the driver thought I was messing around, and didn’t stop (he told the police that later). If I could have removed a headset to make it all stop, I’d have been very happy. Likening what this woman went through to what I endured is frankly insulting.
I’m not saying that because it was different then it’s OK. Obviously it isn’t. But it’s really not comparable, and it trivialises what I went through.

FrankieStein403 · 30/01/2022 15:35

not sure sexual assault is the correct term
At a minimum it's worse than a dirty phone call and you can end up in prison for that.

Basically it's malicious communication - an offence - so the perverts behind the avatars ought to be prosecuted?

You're not anonymous in the metaverse, you might argue that someone else was using your account but that's against t's and c's so would at least get you barred.

I'm not sure whether meta make it clear that interactions/communications are logged - would help.

gogohm · 30/01/2022 15:36

Unfortunately harassment of women has been a feature of the online/virtual world since it was invented. Back in the early 90's there were chat rooms and if you had a female log in you got harassed, I learned quickly and had a ambiguous log in name!

It's not right but it's a lawless online world, don't do vr or other online type situations until you read carefully the safety features and don't take it too seriously. I'm pretty tough, I've experienced some twats online but I can give as good as I get