To think they may have munchausens

[Snoods]

A friend has a work friend who he thinks may have munchausens. He wants to talk to them about it to try and help them (He’s suffered from mental health issues in the past and now likes to support others). It’s mainly minor ailments that they talk about all the time and takes over their life, so my work friend is worried for them and their future. They believe they had covid (no positive test), and say they still struggle with breathing. Although all tests have been fine and they seem to manage absolutely fine with daily work etc. A recent one has been stomach issues but nothing so far has been found apart from IBS, but they talk about it all the time and have been to A and E quite a lot. I don’t know them and feel they may be genuinely ill so wouldn’t say they aren’t telling the truth, but other things on top of this over the last few years have made my friend feel their friend is making it all up. It’s a difficult one as someone in pain would be heartbroken that a friend thought they were making things up. I read about munchausens and it doesn’t seem as extreme as what I read. Anyone ever come across anyone like this and any outcomes? I don’t want my friend to approach their friend on it and ruin a work friendship if they are wrong.

DH IBD was originally misdiagnosed as IBS, it also causes a lot of joint pain. I wonder if your friend is looking for issues in others.

Sounds more like hypochondria than Munchausen’s- which is now called fictitious disorder I think.

IBS can be pretty severe though? I've got many friends with it and it does significantly affect their quality of life, plus they've been sent to A&E by 111 on occasion as sometimes the symptoms overlap with emergencies like appendicitis.

It depends how well your friend knows his colleague and how much he really knows about the situation.

If the colleague is genuinely concerned that he's ill because of every little thing then it's more likely to be Hypochondria, if he is using it to get attention and is seeking out procedures to get a diagnosis it could be Munchausen's Syndrome.

It's not something I would bring up unless i was genuinely concerned for the person's mental/physical health.

The GP did ask them to consider speaking to a mental health professional, but my friends friend said their mental health is fine apart from the pains/ailments from certain things is getting them down. Which I would certainly understand. It’s very difficult to assess I think. I think maybe a cross over in physical health issues and mental health issues? That’s very common though I would imagine. I don’t know them and was asked for advice, but it’s very difficult to give it. Thanks for the responses so far.

It's possible though that they truely experience all of this chronic pain...but its actually a symptom of their emotional pain.
That communication around it is seeking some kind of response isn't it .
I think the most helpful thing someone could do is try to use some coaching or Motivational interview skills to try to help him identify things he'd like to change in his life, and stuff that would be good for his health and healing, encouraging him in activities that you know could boost his mental health, also encouraging him in self compassion, because he is not going to find that response he is seeking in someone else ..but he may be able to meet that need by being kind and compassionate towards himself. ...the thing is doing these things under the radar to someone who is closed to mental health as an option is quite tricky.
Perhaps if friend is concerned about him they could focus that concern on adding positives to his life...maybe offering to bring in a nice lunch to share, going for a walk together before or after work. Stuff we know is mood boosting.

Friend needs to back off and stop playing Dr Google. The Munchausen's reference is an old hat term and doesn't align to any of the 'facts' given here anyway.

No good will come of interfering in someone else's health issues in this way. Leave it to the medical professionals and HR if that's the issue.

Thank you. Yes that makes sense.

I don't really think friends/work colleagues should be providing an armchair diagnosis, or sharing that with another friend who then puts it to Mumsnet.

@Elasmotherium

Friend needs to back off and stop playing Dr Google. The Munchausen's reference is an old hat term and doesn't align to any of the 'facts' given here anyway.

No good will come of interfering in someone else's health issues in this way. Leave it to the medical professionals and HR if that's the issue.

That isn't accurate. Fabricated or induced illnesss refer to munchausens by proxy, usually relating to a child. This post refers to a person who believes themselves to be unwell, not others. That IS munchausens.

IBS can be quite severe for some people. Also health anxiety can manifest in physical symptoms similar to how you are describing. Also, lots and lots of people have had covid without realising and tests are not 100%.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/fabricated-or-induced-illness/overview/

I would think it's more likely that your friend's colleague has health anxiety (which is quite common) then Munchausen's (which is pretty rare).

Sounds like plain old hypochondria to me. I think it's best to take a step back from someone like that.

Sounds like my late MIL. every conversation revolved around her and her health, and constantly wondering if she was developing some other illness.

She did have various medical problems, but enjoyed endlessly telling anyone who would listen. We'd try changing the subject but it never stopped!

This post refers to a person who believes themselves to be unwell, not others. That IS munchausens.

That's not right. Munchausen's is when someone deliberately fakes illness to get attention. If a person genuinely believes they are unwell then they wouldn't be classified as having Munchausen's.

It's possible they have a food intolerance.

It cause problems with the stomach and also affects your general well being and feeling.

I'd suggest your friend suggest an elimination diet to see if that helps.

I was tested for coeliacs at 17. Negative (much to the surprise if the consultant).

It wasn't until my 30's when I decided to try cutting wheat anyway and seeing what happened I realised how much of my life was spent feeling like shite.

"That isn't accurate. Fabricated or induced illnesss refer to munchausens by proxy, usually relating to a child. This post refers to a person who believes themselves to be unwell, not others. That IS munchausens."

Actually @Curiousmouse you are wrong - Munchausens refers to an individual who is deliberately making themselves ill which is not what the OP mentions in her post at all. I am well aware of the difference between this and FII thanks.

I persist that no-one should be suggesting alternative diagnoses to someone who may or may not have a genuine health condition.

Thanks for comments everyone. I do appreciate it as I don’t want my friend to cause any issues for themselves or their work friend. They are genuinely concerned and I know mumsnet has lots of people with different experiences so thought I would ask. I certainly haven’t posted for any other reason. Sorry if anyone thinks I should not have asked.

Nobody has suggested anxiety yet... that's a first.

And actually the correct medical term for Munchausens is Factitious Disorder Imposed on Self FDIS).

Munchausens by proxy would be Factitious Disorder Imposed on Another (FDIA).

https://www.ukcmls.co.uk/work/tony-elliott/factitious-disorder-then-and-now

Unless you are this person's psychiatrist, you don't really get to say what mental disorder they may or may not have, especially based on second hand information.

Long Covid is a thing and it’s not even a rare thing. I’ve had it for nearly 2 years now and regularly struggle get get a proper breathe or have aching lungs. I also have really bad IBS symptoms as part of it. I would be so upset it people thought it was munchausens as it is so debilitating and, believe me, very much real. I manage to get into work to do my part time job because I have no other option financially. I feel like I should have been off since for 2 years but I can’t afford to live if I don’t go to work. I do 20 hours per week and it absolutely exhausts me to the extent that I have no other life. I am in bed by 9pm every night and I spend most of my time when I’m not at work sitting or lying down. This is in contrast to how I used to be before I had covid(which was not confirmed with a test as back then they didn’t test anyone who hadn’t recently been abroad). I used to exercise regularly, go out in the evenings and have every to do all sorts. Now I struggle to even cook a simple evening meal once or twice a week. It is entirely possible that this person has this and is just dragging themselves through every day the same as I am and the same as a lot of people with this syndrome are.

Listen I had bloody tears of strange ailments. Dizziness, vertigo, muscle pain, bowel and bladder issues. Even my closest family started to think I was suffering from a mental health problem rather than a physical one. After another bout of symptoms this summer I was actually diagnosed with MS.

I'd mind my business. It really effected my mental health not being believed by friends, family and even health professionals.

@CherryAndAlmond

I don't really think friends/work colleagues should be providing an armchair diagnosis, or sharing that with another friend who then puts it to Mumsnet.

No. And I’m intrigued and rather depressed that two women and trying to fix a random man (as in neither of them are in a relationship with him). And that this post has flushed out more helpful women giving up their time. Focus on yourselves women! We don’t have to make every man better and happier.

I think the best thing would be to tell my friend to not advise/get involved.. and just be the work friend they have been. The person does see doctors so I am hoping they are treating the person appropriately. I am sure they are.

Thanks everyone. Appreciate it.