9hrs is all it took!

[Finallylostit]

The new highway code to cause anger!

I went for my morning cycle - no issues did nothing different than I normally do.

Home, shower, jump in car to get food shopping. I live down a country road - wide enough for 2 cars to pass with care, wide enough for a car to over take a cyclist sticking to the left of the lane, with the required space at certain points. Locals all know the places to do it safely.

Today 1 cyclist riding down the middle of the lane - now unsafe for car to pull over to other lane and pass - brilliant

Was he considerate of other road users and pulled over- no.

As on the other side were 8 riders riding two abreast high fiving each other and doing the finger to the motorists. Shouting its the law twats!
Were they considerate of other road users no.

Some of the new laws i think are sensible -
but the ride in the middle of the road, even if there is a cycle lane because you don't feel like it - is asinine

2 abreast packs of mamils hunting on weekends as they venture out of London - when they are generally rude enough as it is - gives those cyclists who are arseholes a legal right to now be an arsehole.

Be considerate and pull over to let cars and vans pass -
that is as likely as Downing Street not having another party in a lockdown!

Yes tried all that - the lane across was clear it’s no big deal was just a wonder. Never had to break coming on before. Probably didn’t want to disturb the horses or maybe didn’t even see me.

@Kennykenkencat I'm not really sure what your point is about overtaking. The updated Highway Code hasn't changed the rules regarding safe overtaking of cyclists. It dues encourage cyclists to take the primary position when safe overtaking isn't possible. Because otherwise cars tend to close pass

(Just like @Cbtb's picture below)

@PurpleCarpets et al

If you know Cheddar Gorge you'll know it's narrow and twisty (as are many of the roads in rural Somerset). If they cycle two abreast then they'll take up most of the road; there isn't room for them to do that and stay on their own side. Even if I'm on the correct side of the road as far over to the left as possible they'll go straight into me hurtling round the blind bends. Many already cut the bends.

It's not a matter of if. It's when.

Without the sarcasm and eye rolling, what is the objection to cyclists being registered and insured?

It reduces the amount of people, we need more people cycling, bikes don't have engines, so don't need registration

I have insurance

Thanks for replying @Momicrone

I wondered because cyclists are capable of causing harm to each other, to pedestrians (and to cars if we’re honest) but can potentially be untraceable thereafter.

@SockFluffInTheBath

Without the sarcasm and eye rolling, what is the objection to cyclists being registered and insured?

Before you read my response, you should know that I don't own a bike or car.

Aside from the fact that many cyclists actually do have insurance, it's not an objection as such as a highly impractical and impossible to administer shift in our basic attitudes towards road use which would, IMO, be taking us in the wrong direction.

People in this country - any people, notwithstanding basic requirements RE age and state of sobriety - all have the right to take a walk or a bike (or a horse) on any public road except motorways.

If you start requiring people to register before they can walk, ride, or cycle on the roads, you remove that right.

People in this country do not have the basic right to take a motor vehicle onto public roads. You have to pass a test to prove your competence and then maintain certain standards, insurance, pay certain taxes if applicable. That many people dodge these requirements doesn't alter the fact that individuals don't have the right to take a motor vehicle onto public roads.

The problem is that our mentality over the years has shifted. Roads used to be for everyone to use to transport themselves and their goods from A to B. Now, people view roads as "for cars / lorries / buses ", and everyone else is an inconvenience. I've seen the exact words "roads are for cars" on more than one MN thread.

We have allowed motor vehicles to dominate because they are convenient and in many cases highly useful. But we've forgotten that actually the vast majority of roads were never built for cars and that people in cars do not have any sort of higher claim over the space.

I want to see a world where we actively reduce our car use. Car ownership in this country has risen faster than our population has grown. They are convenient but they are also incredibly space inefficient, when you consider that an awful lot of cars only have one or two occupants (out of 5 or 7 seats) and will be unused for the majority of the time. You only need to see the neverending threads on here about parking arguments to know that space to store our cars is a real problem in this country. But we keep buying them! And I don't need to go into the environmental and health benefits of reducing car dependency.

So to my mind, forcing registration for cyclists would not only be too much of a paradigm shift in how we regard roads and public access to them, but would also be putting more barriers to reducing car dependency in future. I want to make it easier to get people out of cars, not harder.

Tonight 2 riders side by side on narrow but arterial route with bends NO LIGHTS. To make it worse (if that's possible) it's steep uphill and 50mph bus driver got out and yelled at them (yes they were going that slowly he could walk up to them!). Couldn't hear the exchange words but there was anger

Tonight 2 riders side by side on narrow but arterial route with bends NO LIGHTS. To make it worse (if that's possible) it's steep uphill and 50mph bus driver got out and yelled at them (yes they were going that slowly he could walk up to them!). Couldn't hear the exchange words but there was anger

This is just the start, it's going to get very bad. People are already on a short fuse because of the pandemic, cost of living and irresponsible government.

Thanks @Lockheart that makes perfect sense and I agree with most of what you’ve written. However I still think there are potential issues on a practical level especially if numbers of cyclists increase- given cyclists could feasibly cause harm to each other, pedestrians, horses I think there should be some traceability and accountability.

@gogohm

Tonight 2 riders side by side on narrow but arterial route with bends NO LIGHTS. To make it worse (if that's possible) it's steep uphill and 50mph bus driver got out and yelled at them (yes they were going that slowly he could walk up to them!). Couldn't hear the exchange words but there was anger

Bikes seem to be replacing natural selection. Definitely will be at this rate...

SockFluffInTheBath A few petitions have been started about this and the government has each time given the answer as no to registering bikes, this is when the petition reaches 10000

There are thousands of unsolved hit and run crashes in U.K. each year.

What is interesting is that Boris bikes are registered, so if there was ever a crash on a particular bike they could trace the person who was riding the bike. But in all the years they’ve been going it’s never been required. So I guess the government thinks what’s the point in doing it for other bikes

The Government considers that the costs of a formal registration system for cycle ownership would outweigh the benefits. The safety case for such a system is not as strong as that for drivers since, by contrast with motorised vehicles, cycles involved in collisions on the highway are highly unlikely to cause serious injury to other road users.
Cycling provides clear benefits, both for those cycling (particularly in terms of health) and for wider society (tackling congestion, reducing CO2 emissions and improved air quality). The introduction of a licensing system would significantly reduce these benefits, especially over the short term. Over the long term, it would deny children and young adults from enjoying the mobility and health benefits cycling brings until they were old enough to pass a formal test.
The introduction of a system of licensing would also be likely to lead to a reduction in the number of people cycling. This would be at odds with the Prime Minister’s plans to boost walking and cycling. The Prime Minister’s Cycling and Walking Plan (Gear Change) can be viewed here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/cycling-and-walking-plan-for-england.
Furthermore, the National Travel Survey indicates that a very high proportion of people who cycle regularly also hold a driving licence. The absence of a licensing system does not prevent a cyclist from being liable for their actions. The police and ultimately the courts, can take into account all the circumstances of an incident and judge accordingly.
Cycle lanes, where provided, offer people cycling an alternative to cycling in the main carriageway, but it is not compulsory to use them and the Government has no plans to change this. The majority of people cycling generally use cycle lanes, but there are times when it may be more appropriate for them to use the main carriageway, such as when they are overtaking slower people cycling or avoiding obstructions on the cycle lane, or where it offers a faster, more direct route.
The Government has announced ambitious plans for walking and cycling, and has committed an unprecedented £2 billion of funding for active travel over 5 years which includes the roll-out of segregated cycle lanes in towns and cities and offering cycle training to everyone who wants to undertake it, whether free or at a nominal charge. This investment coupled with the recently announced changes to The Highway Code will deliver increased safety for the most vulnerable road users and ensure a more mutually respectful and considerate culture of safe and effective road use that benefits all users.
The Government is currently running trials of rental e-scooters to assess their safety and the impacts they have on the road and to inform the development of future policy. 31 trial areas are currently operating across England.
Trial e-scooters are limited to 15.5 mph and are exempted from vehicle registration and licensing requirements. E-scooters must not be used on pavements. Those taking part in the trials need a full or provisional driving licence, meaning that the minimum age of those using the scooters should be 16 years old. Cycle helmets are strongly recommended but are not mandatory. All trial e-scooters must meet minimum construction standards and have a minimum of third-party insurance provided by the e-scooter operator.
Guidance on the rules for trials has been published at: www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users.
Outside of the rental trials, e-scooters are still subject to the Road Traffic Act 1988 and are defined as a type of motor vehicle. Users of e-scooters will need to have insurance, driving licences, number plates and helmets, and the vehicles will need to meet the relevant construction requirements. The law was not drafted with e-scooters in mind, so users of e-scooters will find it a challenge to comply. Guidance on this can be found at: www.gov.uk/government/publications/powered-transporters/information-sheet-guidance-on-powered-transporters.
Department for Transport

@ SockFluffInTheBath this is the answer the government gave to me poopholes petition for escooter and bikes to have I’d and registrar

@CaptaNoctem I agree they sound rather stupid. If the road is single track then they need to slow down as do any cars coming the other direction - anyone flying round a blind bend is an idiot. Them being two abreast shouldn’t make it worse tho - they won’t be any wider than a car or a lorry that could also be coming in the opposite direction.

On single track roads it’s more essential the cyclist takes the primary position in the centre of the only lane - there is no space to pass without passing spaces/someone pulling off the road so the cyclist must be very visible as many cars seem to think that there is space to get past a cycle on a single track road, when if it was another car they were meeting they would slow down and one reverse to the last passing space etc….

Alexandra2001

“You would have to have a lot of clear road to overtake in order to avoid oncoming traffic”

I thought cyclists crawled along 5mph and added 40mins to your commute? Now apparently, you need a mile of clear road to get by lol

Not all of us drive cars and vans that can speed up at a moments notice so would need extra road ahead clear to pull out and speed up to pass the cyclist,

If you can’t overtake you have to go slow and clog up the streets which just makes the air quality worse

You shouldn't be going much faster than a cyclist in an urban area, if at all - car traffic in most inner city areas is lucky to get to 10mph due to the shear volume of traffic

I drive a lot in London and since the roads have been narrowed to accommodate bus lanes a lot of people drive with a couple of wheels in the middle of the road in areas. The idea of going over to the opposite lane which is really not going to be that free of traffic sounds like a disaster waiting to happen particularly given the lanes aren’t really full lanes in the first place.

Telling cyclists to drive on in the middle of the road is not taking account of the fact that bus lanes in some areas force cars and vans in to the middle of the road.

64000 people die each and every year due to air pollution, much of it from cars

So will kill more people in 3 years than a Pandemic has.... and car drivers have the nerve to have a go at cyclists

Isn’t it somewhere between 29-52,0000 and also wouldn’t it be better to speed the traffic up and not slow it down in cities.

Isn’t it somewhere between 29-52,0000

No it’s 64000

And U.K. air pollution is over legal levels

Thus the clean air strategy and why the U.K. government are copying Europe to try to lower the pollution levels and prevent these death.

A bit like the smoking campaigns

wouldn’t it be better to speed the traffic up and not slow it down in cities

It's also not cyclists that cause congestion and slow traffic in cities. It's the volume of cars.

It's also not cyclists that cause congestion and slow traffic in cities. It's the volume of cars

Traveling by car in a city or town is slow, the average speed in London, is 8.7 mph to 7.1 mph in central London. 12.5 mph to 11.6 mph in inner London. 20.3 mph to 19.3 mph in outer London.

Strava data, the average male UK cyclist rides at an average speed of 25.61kmh (15.9mph), whilst the average UK female hits 19.84kmh (12.32mph).

@Cbtb

Helmets. I wear one because the only nasty accident I’ve had was a skid in ice and so was helpful. Ditto with my kid. She’s more likely to get hurt falling off herself because I don’t let her cycle on roads yet.

However studies show that

1. Helmets are useless in collisions with multiple or HGVs .

2. Cars and HGV pass closer to cyclists wearing helmets

So it can be argued that helmets do not help and may make you less safe on roads with traffic.

Having seen the state of both a colleague and sil’s helmet after they came off their cycles I’m jolly glad they were wearing them.

www.aph.com/community/holidays/commute-getting-slower-average-speeds-uks-major-cities-revealed-2017/ It’s not just London that drivers average speeds are so low, even within a 5 mile radius of these cities the speeds are lower than the average male cyclist speed - bar Glasgow.

@hedgehogger1

I wish they'd been some requirement for cyclists to wear fluorescent jackets or similar at the same time. It's so much easier to deal with when you can see them from a distance on a dark night

I do wear fluoresceent when I cycle and still about 30% of car drivers come dangerously close.

@Kennykenkencat again, the overtaking rules haven't changed. A car would always need to move into the opposite late to allow the legal amount of room required to pass safely. Encouraging drivers to take the middle of the lane Is so that cars have a visual prompt to not squeeze past them when there isn't adequate room (on a street with double parked cars for example)

Your mention of bus lanes is a red herring, because cyclists can and do use bus lanes. Unless the bus lane is blocked, a cyclist would not be riding on in the "middle lane", though will need to move out into that lane to get around buses that have stopped and other obstacles.