To think it’s daft to make big life decisions based on WFH without checking it’s permanent?

[GoldenOmber]

My work used to be office-based. We’ve all been WFH since March 2020 because of government rules (not in England).

This week the government lifted that rule, and later that day our employers told us what the plans were to start bringing us back. This is pretty flexible - not starting for a month or two yet, will still allow a lot of WFH for people who want it (like 9 days a fortnight with one in the office). Most people are ok with this. Some people really aren’t.

Now we are having drama over email with a small but vocal group saying how angry/upset they are, because they have made big changes based around getting to WFH and it will now be difficult for them to go back at all. Even 1 day a fortnight starting in April. Changes like moving house far away from office; getting a dog and not wanting to leave the dog alone; selling car and not wanting to get public transport b/c germs (not just covid, all germs).

Work have ALWAYS said WFH was temporary though! I have some sympathy for how long it’s going to take you to commute from your new house in the middle of nowhere, but SURELY you’d factor that in when you bought it?

YABU - no, after 2 years of WFH working fairly well it was reasonable to expect it to continue without checking.

YANBU - yes, they should obviously have checked.

@Pluvia

Can they work just as effectively though? I've certainly received very lax, second-class service from a formerly excellent company whose staff are working from home. Friends had been successfully using a letting agent for years until the staff started working from home, at which point it all fell apart.

I'm currently in dispute with a solicitor who told me should could complete a job in a month and five months later is stuttering into the closing straight. No outside agencies or delays involved, but she has had children at home with her (I can hear them) and can be impossible to contact for a week at a time. If she was in the office I might me able to speak to a colleague or assistant, but it's been a disaster for me. There will ne a number of suppliers/ agents/ companies I won't use again.

I had a completely different experience with the solicitor that was dealing with my dad’s estate who was wfh and very efficient - I can’t rate him highly enough.

Let’s not be under any illusions - we’ve all had poor service from office-based companies. Location does not determine service level.

My dh's company have asked everyone to return 2 days per week. Funnily enough everyone one wants to work Tuesday / Wednesday. No-one wants to work Monday or Friday. The business needs cover every day of the week. Also some people wanted to interpret a hybrid return as coming into the office at 10.30am and leaving at 3pm. That's not hybrid, it's part time!

Maybe that’s past of the communication issue - work talked vaguely about flexibility and some people assumed flexibility = I get to pick the work pattern that fits me best, woohoo let’s move to Snowdonia. Whereas actually flexibility = we will be prepared to give you some of the things you want, but not necessarily everything.

If we’re ever in this situation again i hope employers are very VERY clear. Like explicitly saying “THIS IS TEMPORARY, we WILL be expecting you back in the office to some degree at some point, if you want to move/get a pet/whatever then bear that in mind.”

@dorkfink

No I don't think it's a big ask to come in 1 day out of 10 just seems a bit of a logistical nightmare trying to coordinate everyone for that same day.

yeah probably. I think they’re counting on most people being back more than that and therefore teams can rearrange around it.

Agree 100%. Too many people made decisions without fact checking first and unfortunately for them, the decisions tended to be difficult to reverse and financial.

Honestly, I don’t have any sympathy. If you decide to get a pet, you’re signing up to 10+ years of commitment, and it would be bonkers to think the pandemic would last that length of time. Alas, the dogs will be dumped and they’ll be someone else’s problem to deal with.

The moving house one bothers me less because ultimately, if you like the area so much then you can look for work that’s closer. You might have to make adjustments in other areas of life (less well paid job, change of sector), but if living there is so important to you, then that’s what you’ll have to do.

Honestly, though, I would be more understanding if people who are affected by this had an attitude of where they’re very much “ok, this is a problem but let’s try to fix it. If I can’t continue to WFH then I can do x, y or z”. Rather than throwing their toys out of them pram in a strop akin to a 2 year old who didn’t get a packet of sweets for the second time that day.

And, this is an unpopular opinion, but I think a lot of WFH workers need to realise that a huge volume of workers across the UK never had WFH as an option and being so bratty about WFH ending makes them look incredibly self absorbed. They had to go into work, for months when there was little to no safeguarding measures in place. They worked horrendous hours to keep the wheels of the country turning. They provided healthcare, they ensured your food retail stores were stocked, they delivered shopping and parcels to thousands of people every single day. I’m sure a lot of them would have loved the opportunity to earn money from the safety and comfort of their own home. So, maybe if you are one of those who is pissed off about having to commute to work a few days a week/your normal working week, maybe take a step back and reframe the entire thing in your mind- “hey well at least it was a good run. I like WFH so maybe for my next role I’ll see if I can find a role that has hybrid/WFH working”.

It isn't genius for HR to make a rule that meetings, training, inductions all happen in one week each month. Do a deal with a local mid-market hotel (who won't have a huge number of bookings and might be glad of the certainty of xxx rooms let) to schedule meetings. The people dragged in to participate will make some kind of camaraderie.

The OP’s husband heard the exchange of words.

When my husband tells me what he has heard, I don’t think of it as ‘hearsay’.

So no, I don’t think this is a text book definition of it.

Sorry wrong thread.

I'm torn on this. I'd done hybrid working before covid even though this meant a 3hr commute. However lots of my team were based around the country and were classed as remote workers so never went into any of our offices.

Now having worked from home for 2 years, the thought of going back does grate quite a bit. The commuting costs plus the extended childcare (currently we just pay after-school club from 3.15 till 5, whereas if I need to be in the office 2 or 3 days a week we'll need breakfast club plus have to extend after-school club to 6pm).

The thought of trekking into the office to spend my days talking on Teams to someone doing my absolutely identical role who works from home, with no commuting costs and much lower childcare costs really annoys me - even though pre-pandemic this was still the case!! I know it's irrational but I can't help it.

Having said that it's not something I'll kick up a massive stink about but after so long at home, it does make you realise how much wasted time I spent per week sat in traffic even if it is only 2 days a week.

What an incredibly silly thing to do. Why did anyone think it was permanent?

YANBU.

people worked from home on zero notice in March 2020 when the company asked them to

I keep seeing people saying this, have people forgotten that companies didn't just randomly decide to get people working from home with no notice, the Government required it?

I'm certainly not anti wfh, I'd much prefer it, but can also see that relationships aren't as good, new starters are finding it harder in many respects, junior members of staff are finding it harder to learn from colleagues, more time is being wasted because all of these things now need to be scheduled in as meetings rather than chats just organically happening in the office etc. So can also see the argument for hybrid working

Of course there are always those that take the piss but that is a management issue and everyone shouldn't be penalised as a result

Regardless of your thoughts on WFH, it is still not sensible to move too far away from the office to attend regularly if required

@PizzaCrust, yes.

YANBU. I like being able to WFH, and we have a hybrid model where I work that seems to work well.

A bit off topic, but my main concern with WFH generally is that employers will soon realise they can employ someone in a different country to do the same work at a fraction of the cost. This could have a major impact on UK employment.

@venusandmars

My dh's company have asked everyone to return 2 days per week. Funnily enough everyone one wants to work Tuesday / Wednesday. No-one wants to work Monday or Friday. The business needs cover every day of the week. Also some people wanted to interpret a hybrid return as coming into the office at 10.30am and leaving at 3pm. That's not hybrid, it's part time!

This annoys the life out of me, even in a non WFH job. We have shifts in our work which are more desirable than others, but they’re split fairly across the whole team. At least that way everyone has x “nice” shifts and x “grim” shifts. No one gets treated better than anyone else so no one can complain and the workload is spread fairly.

People need to accept that they can’t get everything they want and that’s part of working life. I think WFH has made a lot of people incredibly self absorbed to the point where they really should just quit the job as they’ll be completely impossible and insufferable to work with otherwise.

I do worry that these sort of attitudes will lead to employers not being willing to offer flexitime etc, as well. They also might stop offering WFH work for those who have done most of their work from home for much longer than the pandemic if it isn’t explicitly written into their contract, too. I think it could be disastrous for those who have chronic illnesses/disabilities which make commuting into work hard/impossible on a regular basis.

But I’m not surprised. People misused the sunflower lanyard and now it means absolutely fuck all, so of course it’ll end up happening here too, because Barry can’t be arsed getting up for a train in the morning.

Honestly, though, I would be more understanding if people who are affected by this had an attitude of where they’re very much “ok, this is a problem but let’s try to fix it. If I can’t continue to WFH then I can do x, y or z”.

Agreed and to be fair, l’d bet there are a fair few people at my work doing that - they’d just be less visible because that would mean having conversations with managers etc, not emailing 150 people or taking over meetings with “I was SHOCKED to see the latest from HR!!!” rant rant rant about it.

@PizzaCrust

Agree 100%. Too many people made decisions without fact checking first and unfortunately for them, the decisions tended to be difficult to reverse and financial.

Honestly, I don’t have any sympathy. If you decide to get a pet, you’re signing up to 10+ years of commitment, and it would be bonkers to think the pandemic would last that length of time. Alas, the dogs will be dumped and they’ll be someone else’s problem to deal with.

The moving house one bothers me less because ultimately, if you like the area so much then you can look for work that’s closer. You might have to make adjustments in other areas of life (less well paid job, change of sector), but if living there is so important to you, then that’s what you’ll have to do.

Honestly, though, I would be more understanding if people who are affected by this had an attitude of where they’re very much “ok, this is a problem but let’s try to fix it. If I can’t continue to WFH then I can do x, y or z”. Rather than throwing their toys out of them pram in a strop akin to a 2 year old who didn’t get a packet of sweets for the second time that day.

And, this is an unpopular opinion, but I think a lot of WFH workers need to realise that a huge volume of workers across the UK never had WFH as an option and being so bratty about WFH ending makes them look incredibly self absorbed. They had to go into work, for months when there was little to no safeguarding measures in place. They worked horrendous hours to keep the wheels of the country turning. They provided healthcare, they ensured your food retail stores were stocked, they delivered shopping and parcels to thousands of people every single day. I’m sure a lot of them would have loved the opportunity to earn money from the safety and comfort of their own home. So, maybe if you are one of those who is pissed off about having to commute to work a few days a week/your normal working week, maybe take a step back and reframe the entire thing in your mind- “hey well at least it was a good run. I like WFH so maybe for my next role I’ll see if I can find a role that has hybrid/WFH working”.

I agree 100%. It became apparent at work for me that there needed, even in an office, some people to be there.

I started a new job in the pandemic and have enjoyed working from home BUT knew there would be some going into the office required. It's crazy how employees are expecting to never go in when there will always be times when in person is necessary in many roles.

@Theblacksheepandme

What gets to me are people stating that they are now having to deal with childcare. I have been working from home since March 2020. I treat it exactly as if I had to go into the office. If people have children that require childcare they should be in childcare even if working from home. When people say this it makes it look like people working from home are taking the piss. I get more done at home and stupidly don't even take a break like I would in the office.

I never expected to be at home forever but I do think work should accomodate people if they want to continue. I certainly wouldn't mind going in a day a week. I think people shouldn't have made big life decisions that would not allow them to attend the office at all. However I would be pissed off if what is working for me now is going to change dramatically.

I always had a long commute and parking to pay for. I am not on a lot of money and a saving weekly of €70 means a lot to me.

I disagree, school children are perfectly able to do homework/play by themselves, with an adult in the house, whilst not being old enough to be home alone.

Many People can change their work times to do the school runs from home but not from the office.

Even babies/toddlers can require far fewer childcare hours if it's not having to incorporate long parental commutes.

A senior manager moved not only miles from the main office but also a very inaccessible part of the UK generally (think Land's End or John O'Groats). He now has a 5 hour one way journey to the main office which he does once a fortnight with an overnight stay so 2 days in the office a fortnight. He has small children as well so it must be hard for the family but it's a beautiful part of the world and he sees it as necessary for his work life balance.

maybe take a step back and reframe the entire thing in your mind- “hey well at least it was a good run. I like WFH so maybe for my next role I’ll see if I can find a role that has hybrid/WFH working”.

Surely that logic can apply to those who are resentful that they can't/didn't wfh though?

We have the same bunch of people complaining even though it’s only 2 days a week they need to come in. Sorry but don’t move or get a dog without considering the cost of that, long expensive commute and dog walker / day care. This group exists in every office in the country and drive me potty

Funnily enough everyone one wants to work Tuesday / Wednesday. No-one wants to work Monday or Friday.

This happened at DHs work, he was going in on a Mon & Fri because I work those days. He didn't see anyone because no one else came in on those days so it was pointless. His company are looking at closing the office on Friday & maybe doing a rota for 2 days a wk as no point offering catering etc if no one is in.

Someone at my partners work is affronted about going back to the office because ‘her kids don’t want to go back to after school club’ so she now wants to be able to finish at 3 to collect them every day. Absolute loon.

@Blueeyedgirl21

Someone at my partners work is affronted about going back to the office because ‘her kids don’t want to go back to after school club’ so she now wants to be able to finish at 3 to collect them every day. Absolute loon.

Daft. Shows how entitled many people are now.

I'm certainly not anti WFH, I'd much prefer it, but can also see that relationships aren't as good, new starters are finding it harder in many respects, junior members of staff are finding it harder to learn from colleagues, more time is being wasted because all of these things now need to be scheduled in as meetings rather than chats just organically happening in the office etc. So can also see the argument for hybrid working...

Of course there are always those that take the piss but that is a management issue and everyone shouldn't be penalised as a result.

Regardless of your thoughts on WFH, it is still not sensible to move too far away from the office to attend regularly if required...

Good points @PrincessPaws Especially the one about peoples relationships being affected, and even wrecked. It's not normal or natural in ANY relationship for the couple to spend every living waking hour together.

And MEN being at home all day is awful. If they are working (from home) they are arrogant and shouty and take over the whole house, and their selfish needs trump everyone else's. If they are furloughed they are whiny and clingy and lazy, and get under your feet, chatting shit half the day, and following you around.

And as you say, it's very bad for new starters, as they simply cannot learn/do the job properly without peer support. People need to go back to the office, even if only 2 days a week for the first 6 months, then upped to 3 days a week 6 months later. (That's if they are full time. If they are part time, they can bloody well go back to work for all their days/hours.)

I get that it's been wonderful hopping out of bed 10 minutes before you start work instead of 2 hours before, and childcare and things like appointments and so on have been made much easier, and for this reason I think people SHOULD be able to stay at home half the week.. if they wish....... But WFH full time cannot go on forever. For many reasons... some listed by princesspaws there...

By the way, what kind of plonker decides to get a dog, or move 50-60 miles away from the office? How stupid. Surely they must have known WFH was never going to be permanent.