To think it’s daft to make big life decisions based on WFH without checking it’s permanent?

[GoldenOmber]

My work used to be office-based. We’ve all been WFH since March 2020 because of government rules (not in England).

This week the government lifted that rule, and later that day our employers told us what the plans were to start bringing us back. This is pretty flexible - not starting for a month or two yet, will still allow a lot of WFH for people who want it (like 9 days a fortnight with one in the office). Most people are ok with this. Some people really aren’t.

Now we are having drama over email with a small but vocal group saying how angry/upset they are, because they have made big changes based around getting to WFH and it will now be difficult for them to go back at all. Even 1 day a fortnight starting in April. Changes like moving house far away from office; getting a dog and not wanting to leave the dog alone; selling car and not wanting to get public transport b/c germs (not just covid, all germs).

Work have ALWAYS said WFH was temporary though! I have some sympathy for how long it’s going to take you to commute from your new house in the middle of nowhere, but SURELY you’d factor that in when you bought it?

YABU - no, after 2 years of WFH working fairly well it was reasonable to expect it to continue without checking.

YANBU - yes, they should obviously have checked.

Reportedly, some of the reasons from my employer for backtracking from the "work from anywhere" licence over the last few years are:
*reduction in brand loyalty in the employee base - the company prides itself on being friendly and helpful and a naice place to work, but there's concern that we'll all forget who we we are working for
*difficulty in assimilating into new teams when you join a new project etc, or for complete new starters - you'd be surprised at how many people still don't have their cameras on
*difficulty in identifying high flyers and people who are struggling
*people taking Teams calls in their pyjamas - and even from bed apparently (with camera on!)
*people declining meetings because they walk their dog or collect their child at that time
*people claiming to miss meetings or even going awol because of faulty IT, but not logging faults with the helpdesk
*difficulty in maintaining personal networks within the business

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@longestlurkerever well if it wasn’t allowed to finish at 3 because of not meeting business need before covid, why would it be suddenly ok now ? Loads of people have kids at his work, she’s the only one expecting to be able to do pick up 5 days a week (she already starts at 9am to facilitate drop off) she’s essentially asking to drop 10 hours a week and get paid the same ! It’s not depressing it is total cheeky fuckery!![/quote]
You didn't mention in your pp that she wanted to be paid the same, you just said she wanted to finish at 3. She presumably thinks she's demonstrated it can be done without affecting business need. Her employers disagree. Fair enough. They have the last word about whether to continue to employ her on revised terms but I don't see why it's lunacy to argue your pitch to your employer. One of my team wants to work from abroad. There are all sorts of difficulties associated with that but ultimately I don't really want to lose her from the team right now so I'm trying to work through them. I'm certainly not calling her cheeky and a loon for setting out her case.

@Justkeeppedaling

Reportedly, some of the reasons from my employer for backtracking from the "work from anywhere" licence over the last few years are: *reduction in brand loyalty in the employee base - the company prides itself on being friendly and helpful and a naice place to work, but there's concern that we'll all forget who we we are working for *difficulty in assimilating into new teams when you join a new project etc, or for complete new starters - you'd be surprised at how many people still don't have their cameras on *difficulty in identifying high flyers and people who are struggling *people taking Teams calls in their pyjamas - and even from bed apparently (with camera on!) *people declining meetings because they walk their dog or collect their child at that time *people claiming to miss meetings or even going awol because of faulty IT, but not logging faults with the helpdesk *difficulty in maintaining personal networks within the business

They are all issues with poor management.

The last one, fair enough. Bur skilled people can do it. But the rest should agave been dealt with as they happen. Boundaries set.

Rather than deciding everyone should go back to avoid managing poor behaviour.

reduction in brand loyalty in the employee base - the company prides itself on being friendly and helpful and a naice place to work, but there's concern that we'll all forget who we we are working for

Difficult to see that as the employee's problem if they're happy personally doing what they're doing.

I work from home, generally (contractor), and can do so because of the experience that I have in my field. However, I built up that experience through working around other people and it took about 6 years plus continuous ongoing ideas throwing & catching since. You cannot put a price on learning by being around people who know far more than you do, in what I do.

@Svalberg

I work from home, generally (contractor), and can do so because of the experience that I have in my field. However, I built up that experience through working around other people and it took about 6 years plus continuous ongoing ideas throwing & catching since. You cannot put a price on learning by being around people who know far more than you do, in what I do.

Exactly.

@Justkeeppedaling

Reportedly, some of the reasons from my employer for backtracking from the "work from anywhere" licence over the last few years are: *reduction in brand loyalty in the employee base - the company prides itself on being friendly and helpful and a naice place to work, but there's concern that we'll all forget who we we are working for *difficulty in assimilating into new teams when you join a new project etc, or for complete new starters - you'd be surprised at how many people still don't have their cameras on *difficulty in identifying high flyers and people who are struggling *people taking Teams calls in their pyjamas - and even from bed apparently (with camera on!) *people declining meetings because they walk their dog or collect their child at that time *people claiming to miss meetings or even going awol because of faulty IT, but not logging faults with the helpdesk *difficulty in maintaining personal networks within the business

people declining meetings because they walk their dog or collect their child at that time

We are having an issue with this currently. I have finished at 3pm three times a week for ages. A colleague now has shared care with her partner and does school pick up three days a week. I do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and she does Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. We have to have an "end of day" meeting once a week at 4pm. As my working hours had been altered this was always on a Thursday. Colleague is trying to say this is unfair to her and discrimination.

My hours were in place when we were office based. I work early on my days, and make some up in the evening. If we were in the office she wouldn't be able to leave as its not officially flexible working, just a favour.

My heels are well and truly dug in.

[quote MabelsApron]@HunterHearstHelmsley Agree. I made this point a few pages ago and someone said that women who aren’t mothers don’t need flexibility. [/quote]
That old chestnut

Where I work at a recent staff meeting it was acknowledged that hybrid working is almost certain to become permanent as the jobs market is demanding it and they are already finding it difficult to recruit in a candidate's market. Have heard the same has been happening in many sectors.

My workplace are dragging their heels about hybrid working, they need to get it sorted as there is no shortage of alternative organisations offering the same roles (apart from mine) with a flexible working approach. Some say it may be jumping from the frying pan and into the fire but some may be willing to take that risk.

People do know that hybrid working means some time in the office though, right? Or no? Maybe to some people it means ‘some people in the office 100% of the time, others at home 100% of the time’?

@GoldenOmber

People do know that hybrid working means some time in the office though, right? Or no? Maybe to some people it means ‘some people in the office 100% of the time, others at home 100% of the time’?

I think some people took it to mean "you can if you want" so basically a complete choice of where you work.

We've done a lot of work on wellbeing and every staff survey and focus group comes up with broadly the same facts:

• most people want to work a mixture of home and office (with percentages varying)
• new starters have found it challenging to get to know people with 100% remote working
• younger staff are feeling isolated, and worrying about building careers with less visibility
• staff miss the social mixing side when working from home
• there are many, many benefits to being able to WFH when wanted

I'm convinced that the main reason for having people back twice a week in our office from early November (well it happened for four weeks), and saying last May this would happen at some point, was to minimise the very issues that the OP highlighted. So that if there is ever a reason to attend at the office, no-one can claim they cannot because they moved house (or other reasons the OP mentioned).

I'm a bit concerned that social anxiety might increase significantly with so many people working on their own, stuck inside their homes. This has already been mentioned, a few times, on MN.

I've also seen a fair bit of snobbery emerging on these threads. It's almost like a whole new social class has emerged.. wfh and non-wfh.

I did snigger, ( sorry) when , during lockdown, people started to move far away from their work places to have ' a bigger house/ a better life/ live the rural dream.
They probably ( literally even!) counted their chickens too early.

@Wherearemymarbles

I was quite bemused when i read of all these people moving to Wales etc as they were never going back to an office ever again. I dont know a single person whose job is now permanently at home. Most are in the office 3 days a week.

My husband's is because the lease was due up on their office building. But my WFH was never going to be permanent so we didn't make any changes to make the return difficult

Dh has been working from home for 2 yrs. We live in a v expensive commuter location: would bloody love to move to seaside instead and WFH there in a massive house.

But we didn’t.

Because that would be dumb.

I am really hoping that the I can only wfh brigade because I want to are forced back to our offices but because I work in the public sector I bet they get their own way.

@ufucoffee

I am really hoping that the I can only wfh brigade because I want to are forced back to our offices but because I work in the public sector I bet they get their own way.

Why? That sounds unreasonable of you.

@ufucoffee

I am really hoping that the I can only wfh brigade because I want to are forced back to our offices but because I work in the public sector I bet they get their own way.

If their roles allow for it and their productivity is the same or higher than if they were in the office then great, I’m pleased that they’ll get their own way. You sound very bitter.

@ufucoffee

I am really hoping that the I can only wfh brigade because I want to are forced back to our offices but because I work in the public sector I bet they get their own way.

I’m more worried that the organisation will get so fed up of the fuss and refuse to compromise that they decide flexible hybrid offers are more trouble than they’re worth, and then the rest of us lose out too.

Definitely YANBU on this one.
I can't believe the number of people who have blithely upped sticks and moved 100+ miles away from their workplace and are now finding themselves completely stuck with being able to commute again.
Also some people who have taken on the responsibility of dog ownership who have had to hand their dog over to a rescue place to rehome it.

I'm sure that at the time, workplaces were clear that the WFH arrangement would only ever be temporary. A classic case of some people believing what they wanted to believe maybe.🙄

I really can't understand what's so hard about 1 day a fortnight

Most schools have wrap around care
Public transport still exists.
Dog walkers exist

Nothing is insurmountable

People who moved 100s of miles away need to make a plan B super quick

@Doubleraspberry

We've done a lot of work on wellbeing and every staff survey and focus group comes up with broadly the same facts:

• most people want to work a mixture of home and office (with percentages varying)
• new starters have found it challenging to get to know people with 100% remote working
• younger staff are feeling isolated, and worrying about building careers with less visibility
• staff miss the social mixing side when working from home
• there are many, many benefits to being able to WFH when wanted

@Doubleraspberry : I have to say I've had much sympathy with younger staff, trainees and new starters the last couple of years. It must have been a nightmare for those people to work remotely with limited support.

To those who say I'm bitter/unreasonable for wanting people back to work this is because our department runs much more efficiently when we are in the same room and I also think that you should work where you're told to work by your employer. But I think I'm rare on here for wanting to do what's best for my job, not what's best for me.