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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find this insulting to women

62 replies

groogrump · 27/01/2022 15:29

Name changed as I am a regular poster but wish to remain anonymous.
I have just qualified in the legal profession. I was scrolling Instagram and saw this post from an organisation that promotes diversity in law. Am I unreasonable to find this considerably insulting?! Whilst I'm sure there are some women who suffer with imposter syndrome the vast majority suffer with obstacles not made by them! To say otherwise is insulting, naive and victim blaming. The message has also been seemingly sponsored by a magic circle solicitors firm. I'm so annoyed as someone who tries to promote diversity in law myself to see something so ignorant.

To find this insulting to women
OP posts:
girlmom21 · 27/01/2022 15:32

It's a quote from a Women In Law event so it's clearly something that impacts lots of women.

HDready · 27/01/2022 15:34

I think you are being unreasonable, it says “often” not always. And in my experience as a solicitor with many years PQE behind me, it is true that female solicitors are more likely to hold themselves back than our male colleagues. Often due to a lack of confidence in our own abilities. I wish I had the confidence of some of my very average male colleagues.

BobbieT1999 · 27/01/2022 15:40

Ynbu

While it isn't incorrect to say lack of confidence or assertiveness can hold someone back (man or woman), this puts the onus directly onto women to just do better and relieves the employer and male colleagues from any responsibility towards addressing sexism in the workplace.

I'd be f*ing furious if this was displayed in a professional capacity where I worked.

Sparky888 · 27/01/2022 15:41

I agree with you. I think most of the barriers are not out there by women!

Kudupoo · 27/01/2022 15:43

I read it as insulting.

Imposter syndrome is real and has real effects on women.

The phrasing is awful though. First of all imposter syndrome doesn't come from your ovaries it comes from a world which undermines women. It's not a women problem it's a sexism problem.

The barriers women face ARE put there by other people.

A woman's approach to overcoming them can be influenced by her own feelings of inadequacy but they weren't 'put there by her'. Imposter syndrome itself could be argued to be a barrier (but I think that's not quite accurate) and it isn't just 'put there' by the woman.

I agree with you OP.

9ofpentangles · 27/01/2022 15:45

Yanbu

UnaOfStormhold · 27/01/2022 15:46

I remember sitting quietly fuming listening to a panel of senior women talking about how barriers didn't really exist and there was no glass ceiling. There didn't seem to be any awareness of the fact that the stats suggested that they were outliers and that other women were encountering very real barriers.

KittenKong · 27/01/2022 15:46

Who actually posted it?

KimDeals · 27/01/2022 15:47

But imposter syndrome is about our own conviction and confidence in a role - when you’re hired into it, and everyone else thinks you’re up for it, but you are the one questioning it - so I can see how that quote is relevant).

If it were to say, obstacles women face are put there often by themselves, well then I’d be furious.

hoorayandupsherises · 27/01/2022 15:48

Absolutely agree with you, OP. It just skips pass structural inequality and sexism in the workplace and broader society.

I'd be livid if I saw that at work.

DiddyHeck · 27/01/2022 15:53

Whilst I'm sure there are some women who suffer with imposter syndrome the vast majority suffer with obstacles not made by them! To say otherwise is insulting, naive and victim blaming.

They're not saying otherwise though are they? It literally says often the barriers placed in front of you etc...

KittenKong · 27/01/2022 15:55

Can you imagine if this was about any other group (apart from over 50s etc)? There’d be calls for heads to roll.

Aimee1987 · 27/01/2022 15:55

I think it was meant as a positive ( believe in yourself) without actually fully understanding the issues which lead to imposter syndrome.

Allsorts1 · 27/01/2022 15:57

Yes I agree - very poorly worded. It’s possible that whoever was doing the social media has just royally effed up by taking the wrong line from the quote that really doesn’t work without the full context.

A better way to word this in relation to the topic of imposter syndrome would be that “women face barriers and SOME of them are internal, if they are dealing with imposter syndrome”.

The “often” in this sentence makes it seem like barriers are imagined most of the time - which is definitely not what I think Allen & Ovary would like to say.

lljkk · 27/01/2022 15:58

I guess it depends which strategy you think will help the most disadvantaged / minority groups.

Recognising that there truly are external barriers: good.

Recognising that as individuals we can be too resigned to accepting the barriers & not challenging what we think might be barriers and thus remove the obstacles: bad.

Useranon1 · 27/01/2022 15:59

But imposter syndrome is about our own conviction and confidence in a role - when you’re hired into it, and everyone else thinks you’re up for it, but you are the one questioning it - so I can see how that quote is relevant

Except the barriers of imposter syndrome are a product of the patriarchy, not something millions of women have simultaneously created for themselves

Pluvia · 27/01/2022 16:00

You're being unreasonable. Good for you that you haven't struggled with impostor syndrome but lots of women do — and it's often the most intelligent women who seem to be getting on the best who suffer worst.

The quote doesn't say that all women suffer and it's made by an organisation that has a lot more experience of women in law than you do. Come back in a few years' time and see if you feel the same then.

MsTSwift · 27/01/2022 16:01

Agree with you op. No examination as to why is is that numerous reasonable smart women might feel this way 🙄.

KimDeals · 27/01/2022 16:03

@Useranon1

But imposter syndrome is about our own conviction and confidence in a role - when you’re hired into it, and everyone else thinks you’re up for it, but you are the one questioning it - so I can see how that quote is relevant

Except the barriers of imposter syndrome are a product of the patriarchy, not something millions of women have simultaneously created for themselves

Fair point. You’re right. It is more important to look at why you’ve come to feel like that, then to stop the enquiry at “you’re lacking confidence”.
lljkk · 27/01/2022 16:05

Except the barriers of imposter syndrome are a product of the patriarchy, not something millions of women have simultaneously created for themselvesf

How does that work when white males mention they have had imposter syndrome (Matt Damon told a story about it when he got an Oscar nomination). ... I dunno, imposter syndrome is a very specific thing, I thought, it's literally all about the mental barriers we ourselves project.

In spite of being female & a lifetime living in "the patriarchy", I never have had IS so probably should stop commenting there.

Rosesareyellow · 27/01/2022 16:08

It’s not been written well. Imposter syndrome is common in women but it’s not exactly something you can just snap out of and the reason behind women suffering with it probably has sexist roots in itself. I think external and internal barriers are closely linked. Many men grow up believing they can do anything no matter how incompetent they are… while women grow up learning to question themselves. Men are much more likely to go for jobs that they are not qualified for than women. And in some women that feeling develops into imposter syndrome. But it all starts with how girls are taught to view themselves. So in terms of external or internal barriers it makes no difference in my opinion.

MerryPoppings · 27/01/2022 16:10

To me, the underlying message reads "stop complaining women, the barriers you complain about are your own fault for not being as assertive and confident as men." So next time you hear a woman complain about misogyny and patriarchy just remember she probably brought it on herself.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 27/01/2022 16:23

I think it's right that imposter syndrome affects a lot of women, women in business are often less confident than men eg less likely to ask for a pay rise.

But its ignoring why this is the case, and ignoring what law firms or other businesses can do to recognise and overcome this. It's not just up to women to fix this.

Telling unconfident people who are like that because of the way society have always treated them, to 'just be more confident' is completely pointless

lljkk · 27/01/2022 16:23

As one of those who never had IS, I resent it being implied I must suffer from IS merely because I'm female ! Dreary annoying assumption.

Blossomtoes · 27/01/2022 16:24

@Useranon1

But imposter syndrome is about our own conviction and confidence in a role - when you’re hired into it, and everyone else thinks you’re up for it, but you are the one questioning it - so I can see how that quote is relevant

Except the barriers of imposter syndrome are a product of the patriarchy, not something millions of women have simultaneously created for themselves

They’re not. Unless you think men can’t suffer from imposter syndrome - which they most certainly can.