New employee unable to return to office

[monotonousmum]

Someone on my team started working for us in December - a few days before we were told to work from home again. Employed through and agent, not direct - if that makes a difference.

Happily (it seemed) was in the office for those few days. We were only doing one day a week each in the office at that point.
I wasn't happy about the return home, as it makes training very difficult and she's not had an easy start because of that. I've kept her on easy tasks for this reason, until we return and can do proper training. She seems OK so far, just desperately in need of more training.

Next week we are due back in the office - this was discussed last week (2 weeks notice) and I've said I'd like her in the office 3-4 days a week to start, to attend training. All agreed, no issues.
This would then drop down to 2 days a week in line with the rest of the team, once fully trained and capable of doing any part of the job from home.

She's now gone to my collegue to say she can't return more than one day a week, if at all, and has got a doctors note to confirm this.

I'm not really interested in whether or not I should believe her, she has a doctors note and I'm not going to accuse anyone of lying. Not mentioning it to me when discussed has pissed me off, and in December there didn't seem to be an issue attending the office every day (ongoing medical issue - not new). But we are where we are.

We were clear in the interview that currently the team were doing one day a week in the office but this was due to increase, and they must be able to work from the office full time if that's what the business decides.

My AIBU:
Would it be unreasonable/unprofessional/illegal to say, 'if your medical issue prevents you from attending your place of work then you're off sick until it's resolved'?

I know there is some work she can do from home, but it's not sustainable to keep doing these easy tasks indefinitely - it's not what she's employed for.

There may be some doubt over what the agent told her regarding working from home - which shouldn't really be my problem if the agent is lying to get staff, but the interview with us was definitely clear.

@linsey2581

I don’t think people should be asking OP what the doctors note says as if OP says what it is then that’s breaching confidentiality. I would be furious if someone disclosed my medical sick note!

Haven't seen a sick note, and even if I had I wouldn't be disclosing the contents.

It's not like I've given any identifying information, or even said what the medical issue is.

I've got some good advice so far, and some bad. But it was worth posting, for the good advice.

I don't know how many times I'll need to say it - but my intention isn't and never was to fire her. I want her to do the job, I don't want to have to through the process of hiring someone else and restarting training.

Lots of advice might be telling me to get rid of her. But not once have I said that's what I'm doing - I'm not.

What the agent said is neither here nor there. The offer/contract from your business should have made the location and expectations clear

It's annoying for you but she has the right to change her mind. Thats what probation periods are for

Probably safer to call it a day now and move on or try and find a way to train her remotely

Ah sorry. She's a temp? Cheerio then. Off
She pops

If the doctor's advice is for her to WFH and not attend the office, then I'm guessing that there would be an issue re insurance. I'm under the impression that if someone is signed off sick then they're not insured to enter the premises - and would assume the same would apply if advised NOT to attend work in the office. This would need addressing.

I think its commendable that your first instinct is not to just terminate this employee's contract as your first option, and it appears that you're trying to find a workable solution - however... I think she is taking the piss, and would not be surprised if she and your company part ways in the near future.

@monotonousmum - haven’t RTFT but have read your posts. Do I have it right that she’ll only need to be in the office until you’ve trained her and that training will take around 30 days (you mentioned six weeks if she was able to be in the office 5d per week)? Can she wfh all the time once she’s trained?

The reason I’m asking is that if it’s a mental health issue, she may feel that six weeks (or 8 or 10 or whatever you agree) of being in the office (after this 28 day period) is do-able because it’s finite.

I’ve had (severe chronic life-limiting) depression that has sometimes made it very difficult to cope with working in an office and commuting. Being able to wfh now has been a godsend. I’m far less anxious, more relaxed, I know if I sleep badly due to panic attacks I only need to make it through to 6pm rather than having to battle through a lengthy commute at the end of the day, etc etc. I’d never go back to working f-t in an office again but I could cope with a finite period for training or similar.

Just wondering if you or your colleague have spoken to her about the requirements of the role after she’s been trained? If she’s otherwise promising, perhaps it’s worth looking beyond the training period.

I know you said you haven’t seen the sick note so aren’t going to discuss it, but if she’s said she’s only coming in 3d a week rather than the 5 you initially agreed, presumably you’re going to need to have a conversation at some point about why she’s not in full time…

I haven't read all 9 pages of comments but imo if she's agency you can just tell the agency she's no longer needed. You don't need to give a reason but you could tell them that you're aware that she's got a doctor's note saying she can't work in an office (when you need her to be there), that would be something they should to take up with her because if she can't work in an office, I think they'll find it difficult to place her as she's only temporary staff.

If the Drs unfit to work says she is not fit to work in the office, there can be no talk of doing one day a week in the office. If she is declared unfit to work then she will need to be off sick on SSP until she is fit. If declared fit but to work from home then this is probably more tricky especially if the job cannot be done from home.

I only got halfway through the thread so sorry if I’m repeating something already posted.
Could you train her in her own home? I appreciate it may still not be perfect and also not possible if it involves equipment or other things. I’ve (in desperation) trained people offsite before and it’s gone better than virtual training.

The first thing to say is that you are not her actual employer, the agency is, then it is the agency that you need to speak to in terms of this matter and not the lady direct.

It is not unreasonable for you to be informed of the reasons why she can't work in the office, particularly given that was the initial expectation. If you know why then you can look to make reasonable adjustments either to the workplace or to her working practice (such as amending work times, special provisions etc).

I know you are accepting the Doctors note which presumably her employer has seen, but again you need to understand the issue so that it can be agreed if this is a short term or long term issue.

You do have to be careful, and you clearly are being, but if this is a change to the circumstances that don't match the needs of the business then you should consider if the situation is sustainable. It sounds like you do need to engage your HR dept. Drop them an email then go and see them. If they are not local then send the email and then immediately call them. They are paid to certainly advise on your options - get it all backed up on email, if not from them then you send them a confirmation of the discussion.

Good luck in getting it sorted out.

Why can’t training me done from home?

@Ozanj

Why can’t training me done from home?

Some people are really bad at remote learning and some things are much harder to teach remotely.

Let her go while you can.

@NoJaffaCakesAreKeptInThisVan

The doctors note is poppycock and we all know it. She accepted the job and actually went into the office initially, is now working from home and obviously just doesn’t want to go back into the office. But how is she going to do her training? 🤷🏻‍♀️ She is very lucky to be offered two days WFH anyway.

As far as I’m aware, people didn’t expect to be able to WFH before the pandemic just because they had a disability so what’s changed?

Unless she has suddenly developed a medical condition that she hasn’t previously mentioned I’d just get rid of her. She’s making a mockery of people with genuine disabilities. I’d report the GP as well while you’re at it. This is not what they’re for.

Do you have a HR department you can ask for advice?

I agree with this. The whole WFH covid situation has really showed who the piss takers are. There are quite a few of them in my office - using every excuse under the sun to work from home whenever they can.

Occupational health gain consent from the person about the information they will disclose in a report. Working in OH I have come across similar situations were the employee or employer have posed questions regarding can someone work certain shift patterns and any support that would be required. So, this shows going through the OH route you are providing a duty of care. Employers have even asked on occasion is the person fit to carry out their role and could they be moved to another role.

@irene9

If she's contract staff and is out sick, you won't be paying her wages anyway. The agent pays her wages, no?

@irene9 - agency pays her wages but OP’s contract to employ her is through agency, so OP’s company pays agency invoice.

Contract staff generally don’t get sick pay just SSP.

@Mirw

The conversation you have to have is about reasonable adjustment because if she has a genuine reason for not coming to the office and you sack her, she can take you to Tribunal for discrimination. Not something your company wants to be in the public eye?

@Mirw - as agency worker is employed on a contract and not via the employer then she couldn’t take the employer to a tribunal only maybe the agency. I’ve not heard of an agency worker taking an agency to tribunal for discrimination in a case such as this.

If employee was employed by the company she may have rights under a year if discrimination but maybe not, depends.

Can't you train her by Zoom or something?

@Tzimi

Can't you train her by Zoom or something?

The op has said numerous times why this doesn’t work.

...Or maybe you could go to her house to train her?

@Comefromaway Ah, I havn't read the whole thread, so I didn't see that...

@sanbeiji

She’s in probation, you can let her go for any reason. So do it. Of course go through the proper steps, discuss with HR etc and make sure everything is legal

That's the problem with this country, employers treat employees like sh**, just letting them go for no reason. Of course, employees will have even less rights now we are out of the EU, unfortunately...

She isnt even on probation. She is a temp employed by an agency.

OP has already said she doesn't want to get rid of the employee. She wants advice on how to make the employee come into the office when she doesn't want to. That's worse IMO. No one has to employ someone to do a job they aren't suitable for, and no one has to do a job that they want to do. OPs needs and her employee's needs are incompatible. In these circumstances it's really more appropriate to terminate the employment rather than try to overrule the employee's needs.

@BuanoKubiamVej

OP has already said she doesn't want to get rid of the employee. She wants advice on how to make the employee come into the office when she doesn't want to. That's worse IMO. No one has to employ someone to do a job they aren't suitable for, and no one has to do a job that they want to do. OPs needs and her employee's needs are incompatible. In these circumstances it's really more appropriate to terminate the employment rather than try to overrule the employee's needs.

Ok, but a couple of posters suggested to OP that she could get rid of an employee for no reason. That should not be allowed, it just shows a callous indifference to fellow human beings.

@BoodleBug51

They're not fully trained, and are already being obstructive. And anyone producing sick notes this soon into a job? Massive red flag.

They're work shy and likely to be a massive PITA ongoing.

I wouldn't tolerate it in my business.

Wow, I'm, glad I don't work for you, you are totally lacking in empathy! What a horrible person you must be!