To think this is a bit unfair and to remove daughter?

[TheBigPeachy]

My dd is 9 she started at a local performaning arts group age 4 she's always really liked it.
There are usually 3 shows a year. In her section there are around 15 children.
Dd has never had a named part since she started. Which is fine other people might be better suited to the roles etc etc.
However it's became more apparent that the children 5 or so of them tend to always get the main roles. These children are the same ones that pay for private singing tutorials with the group leader.
Dd came home heartbroken after auditioning for 2 weeks and again not getting a named role.
She's now saying she doesn't want to go back there (she's really upset bless her). I've let things cool and said we could carry on, find a different hobby maybe but she's said she wants to carry on but not there.
Would you move her? Is it a bit unfair that it's the same few kids every time?

Thanks all another mum has msg me this morning out of the blue to say she's taking her dd out and I said I was thinking the same so obvious other people must have noticed too

Have you mentioned this to management? Regardless of whether there are some more talented performers, everyone should have the chance to shine. Many parents go to this type of class to make their kids more confident and performing in lead roles does do that. That feeling of never being picked really affects people too!

I would speak to management and tell them how you feel. It’s tough because you are not trying to blackmail them into giving dd a part but they aren’t being fair.

@ginnybag has brilliantly described the conflict of interest. If the teachers are any good, those taking private lessons are likely to have a competitive edge. But it is dead wrong for their own teacher to be making the judgments, hence external panels are the proper way forward.

We can’t know how your DD would fare under that system. Given her wishes I would by all means be looking to move her to a supportive, welcoming PA group. In light of what @ginnybag has said, perhaps one with more emphasis on inclusivity and therefore less emphasis on the box office.

@SD1978

Have you asked for feedback? Openly asked why after 5 years, and 15 performances, she has never had a main part, and if there is a reason, or what would need to be worked on? Chances are you won't get an answer, or an answer you like, but at least you'd maybe get a bit of closure regarding it.

I think this. And I'd not be scared to raise the subject of the correlation between main roles and private tutorials. Approach it in a 'my DD loves the group but I'm sure you understand she's a little disheartened, and I may need to look at other groups' way. If the group leader is decent they'll respond well. If not, move her.

Just to add, I have had 3 daughters. Now my mantra is that anything needs to be supportive, fun, and broaden outlook and experience. My kids were unlikely to go on to the West End but I wanted them to explore their skills and talents and gain some experience.
I would move if they weren't getting that.

Isn't this par for the course with these things. I'm not saying it's fair but there are always favourites in school plays and in theatre groups. The children who have the additional tuition often have the more enhanced abilities or are better known to the staff so they will get picked.
I'm not sure I've known it any differently elsewhere. I went to drama and dance school as a child. I had no shining personality or talent and it was hard but sort of taught me to go my own way a bit. By all means try somewhere else but be prepared for the same again. I thinks it'd so important to do things that hey enjoy and there are ways of enjoying without needing to be always front and centre. If her self esteem is being shot to bits it isn't worth it but if she generally enjoys it it could be that jut thinks oh well its just a hobby and sees it for just that.
Hope she is okay OP, kids mental health is so important

It's meant to be fun & enriching. If your daughter doesn't want to be there, and this is not a passing whim, then take her out. Not because you are annoyed that they give the parts to the best (most will do that), but because this just isn't what she wants to spend her free time doing. Can she join a choir instead where there is less individual pressure & selection?

It's sadly often how things go in a lot of competitive situations.

I agree it's sad.

You have your "go to" people because they are a safe bet. Others then never get a chance yet could prove to be the better bet.

That's why you hear about someone's "break". As in they get a chance and prove themselves rather than they suddenly become amazing and weren't before.

It can happen in employment as well. We recently had an internal opportunity for promotion for a new role. It was also external. No one internal would go for it as they felt X was a shoe in.

I'm senior to all these staff who refused to go for it and felt one had an opportunity to prove they actually had equal skills (arguably more) but they definitely has more practical experience of doing the bits of the job as have stepped in and up before when staff absent.

I'm neither of their line managers so couldn't get more involved.

No one went for it and this person got the job. They definitely are suited to it. But there were others who would have been just as good but are less "flirty" with management iyswim?

So I think remove your dd and find somewhere else. But perhaps have a trial at a few other places before finally deciding on which one you'll join. It's important your dd follows her hobbies and equally important she enjoys it and feels equal within the setting.

Move her, we had the same with our branch of Stagecoach. The hilarious things is the enthusiastic sales pitch the organiser gave me when dd was in reception, how great for her confidence it will be and isn't that what we want as parents for our dc, fast forward 3 years and £££££ paid and hours wasted dd who is naturally confident and able and who was getting good parts at school had max. 1-2 line if any during all plays. When I realised, way too late I instantly removed her.

Not quite the same but at school my ds1 was desperate to do after school rugby. I asked the teacher if he could join and he said only if we bought the boots and kit beforehand. We spent s fortune and the poor kid never got a game only ever practice games. I asked the teacher why he was never picked and was told it was because he wasn't very good and they wanted to win whatever trophy it was.
I told him it should be the taking part that mattered not winning. Ds1 never went back and wouldn't do any sport after that.

I've had children in various performing arts.
In a lot of way the teachers can be caught between a rock and a hard place.
They pick the same kids, then everyone says it's favourites and unfair.
They give everyone the chance and they may end up with a poor production and then parents pull their children out because the show was "rubbish". Yes, that does happen, seen it several times.

The extra singing = parts can be one of several reasons:

1. Those who are good tend to have extra lessons
2. Those who have singing lessons are better because... they have singing lessons, and possibly teach them for the audition
3. The children who have singing lessons have pushy parents who will make a fuss if they don't get the main part
4. They give main parts to the children who have extra lessons because they want them to keep paying.

I've seen all of those happening at various places.

It isn't just talent going into the auditions. It's also how well a child listens to instructions, are they likely to panic on the day, are they unreliable (I've been at a dress rehearsal where the main part didn't turn up with no warning), how well do they work with their opposite number etc.
There can with a known group also be a bit of history-she did particularly well with her small part last year, let's give her a big part this time; he refused to wear the costume last year because he didn't like the hat, let's avoid the part with a major costume.
You can also have the situation that they're very keen to give new people the chance to see what they can do (and keep them coming back :D) so the regulars get bumped down each year.
With one of mine I was fairly sure she was given some of the parts because she was very good at herding/encouraging the younger ones and they wanted her off stage to do that at certain points.

Yes, I would pull her out and look for another if she's asking. But don't get your hopes up it necessarily will change.

What I would look for is:
Camaraderie: When they're encouraging each other and cheering for each other. Fingers crossed all watching in the wings because their friend finds this bit difficult is lovely. Yes there might be a bit of rivalry too, you'll never eliminate that, but when they work together and want to see each other that's good. Ds came out from his first session back saying "it was brilliant except X wasn't there." Not that X is his best friend, but he missed them because they are part of the group/

Fun: A great show is one thing, but how did they get there? You want to see the children going in running and calling to friends, and coming out laughing and full of adrenalin.

Control: A theatre can be dangerous. You want the leaders to be in control. I've chaperoned when the leaders are not in control and it's not fun for the children or anyone else. You want so that if they say "lights down, stand still" that one doesn't decide to see what happens if they jump off the stage, knocking the others in the way."

Performances: Some places go for lots of performances, drama festivals etc. Some don't. I don't think it really matters, but your child may love or hate them.

So look at a few and decide what you want from it. Give her the chance of picking from some, but sometimes the little independent ones can be better than big franchise-and sometimes the franchise ones are great! Give them both a chance.