To think this is a bit unfair and to remove daughter?

[TheBigPeachy]

My dd is 9 she started at a local performaning arts group age 4 she's always really liked it.
There are usually 3 shows a year. In her section there are around 15 children.
Dd has never had a named part since she started. Which is fine other people might be better suited to the roles etc etc.
However it's became more apparent that the children 5 or so of them tend to always get the main roles. These children are the same ones that pay for private singing tutorials with the group leader.
Dd came home heartbroken after auditioning for 2 weeks and again not getting a named role.
She's now saying she doesn't want to go back there (she's really upset bless her). I've let things cool and said we could carry on, find a different hobby maybe but she's said she wants to carry on but not there.
Would you move her? Is it a bit unfair that it's the same few kids every time?

I think it depends how 'serious' the performing arts school is. Not everything in life is fair and it's not school where everyone gets a turn automatically, it's a dedicated performing arts outfit. You could say that it's equally unfair to deprive a more talented child of a part and performing experience that by merit should be theirs. Kids messing around - take turns. Serious performing arts training - those who are most dedicated and talented should get the parts, like they would in the real world.

Move her. I teach kids drama and run an amdram company, and that shouldn't be happening in a 'teaching' group.

I know why it is, though. There is something of a conflict between 'teacher' and 'director'. Teacher absolutely should be ensuring fairness and learning opportunities for all, but Director will naturally tip towards 'bankable' casting. Its hard to igmore a child you know can handle a role and give a solid performance, in favour of an unknown. A 'weak' lead can really limit a whole show and causes stress for the whole cast.

Also, whilst there will be nepotism in force - she needs those kids on her bottom line because they do pay her more - there's also knowing she'll have that extra time with them every week. The other kids don't only need to be as good - they need to be as good in less rehearsal time.

Too, there is pressure on the business for every show to beat expectations, because if it doesn't then parents do pull their kids for somewhere 'better'.

The conflict is why we pulled in an external panel for our show, who knew nothing about the kids. Then stuck to their results.

But, yes, move her and tell the teacher why. A taught class should support all the children fairly.

@Cabbagepie

Unfortunately this seems to be the way these things go in many dance schools. The only time my daughter and her friend got a main part was when an external person who didn't know who the 'stars' were did the auditions. Cue lots of outrage from those who expected the parts and complaints from their mothers. He didn't have any skin in the game and stuck to his guns.

Same thing in music. This comment reminds me of a musician/teacher I knew well telling me she was asked to adjudicate an eisteddfod once. And apparently gave the prizes to all the wrong performers so was not asked back. Similarly, the "pecking order" in my sister's age group on her instrument was established early. When there was a big conference interstate that asked for video auditions for a gala concert - absolute shock that my sister was chosen ahead of several others who "should" have had it.

I hope you can find a group with a better environment for her to participate in and continue to actually enjoy the process.

Poor thing.
I would move her and tell them why.
All those years of participation and never being picked seems terribly unfair. If the response is not suitably regretful I would do as @AdultingInTheCountryside suggested and leave a neg review online.

Move her. There should be a similar group around.

@accidentlygothereagain

I did performing arts from 6-18 (I'm 22 now). I've been at different schools and groups. I'd say in general you'll find that everywhere.

It may seem unfair and definitely can be! But generally the stronger students would be suited to the named roles. Throughout all of my years it was always the same people getting cast as the main part.

Moving her could make her shine from the crowd though!

But be prepared that this thing is common in the industry I'm afraid.

In general I agree with you. I doubt DD will ever get a large singing solo as some of the pupils are more talentend than others and nothing is worse than a voice which can't carry.

And DD has some "classmates" who perform on West End level on a regular basis.

But, a good school also ensures that all pupils who want do have an opportunity, it doesn't have to be a large part but having a part gives a boost and also ensures the child enjoys the lesson. We had different main part children for an informal parent only performance to the huge end of Summer show. There are also some who hate the spotlight on stage but would happily sing in front of a small audience.

I would wonder why a child who constantly auditions never get any part and the teacher is not making sure there is progress. Or is open enough to the parent that it is a hopeless case.

I found that in DD's previous school you had the same issue as with school mums on the PTA, the ones who volunteered all the time, the ones who always said yes to whatever the owner said.

@WhatICallMyUsername that is shocking behaviour from your former dance teacher, and shows her lack of skill and imagination if she wasn’t able to visualise and reblock a piece of group choreography to accommodate an extra dancer rather than substituting a replacement in your spot and making you feel worthless in the process.

OP- by all means take your child out if the class is no longer a suitable fit for your child.
Before you leave the scathing review that another poster suggested- ask yourself this, is your child honestly at the same standard as those that have private lessons who were cast in main roles? Often in performance type groups there can be favourites who always seem to get the lead, but it’s also easy to call favouritism when sometimes it’s just a case of the other child/children take more classes per week and so have improved at a faster rate. I have students who dance for 2 hrs a week and students who dance for 10 hrs a week, of course the ones who do 3-4 evenings are better than the once a week students and they also do more performances and competitions as they are willing to put in the required amount of time. This may seem unfair on the ones who cannot afford to do these additional things, in the same way that my daughters never got to do horse riding or go skiing- because it’s out of our budget. I don’t resent people who can afford those things. If you can afford to attend the class but not the private lessons then accept that some of the children have an advantage when it comes to auditioning for parts- it’s not an unfair advantage, it’s just an advantage.
If the performance is meant to be a demonstration of class work then all children should have the chance to show what they can do, no matter what their ability level is, if it’s an audition for something then they have that advantage, which their parents are paying for (like any parents who pay for a tutor for GCSEs or the 11+ to give their child an academic advantage).
I’m not saying that your daughter isn’t as able, if she is genuinely of a higher or even the same standard but being overlooked then another group will do her good. BTW I couldn’t afford private singing tuition for my daughter until she was 17 despite knowing that she wanted to follow that career path, so she only had a year of singing lessons to accompany the dance classes that she already took before auditioning for a course in professional musical theatre, she was accepted and now is a professional performer, so please don’t think that there is no hope in continuing. Ultimately it’s a hobby, and if the class is too competitive for your DD find another group that is a bit less full on.

She's told you what she wants to do, so do it.

I fail to see the dilemma.

Just move her
Giving the class the benefit of the doubt, maybe it’s a serious performing school and your daughter it’s not at the level required…
Saying that, she’s 9! Move her to a less serious group… again, she’s 9, having fun and gaining confidence are more important
If they ask do tell them why you’re moving her; but equally, if it’s a very “serious” school be prepared to learn that your DD is just not at the level of the other kids - the entertainment industry is brutal
And find a group where fun is the emphasis

My dd had this at school. She loves singing, dancing and acting and had tuition outside of school in all 3. Every single school play and assembly it would be the same 2 or 3 children who had the main parts, they also received lots of awards etc in assemblies. All three of them were also children who's parents were members of staff at the school. It became very disheartening to hear my daughter say at 8 years old that she wasn't going to bother trying anymore because she knew she wouldn't get a part.

Your daughter is 9, and play acting and singing should be fun! I'm sorry you're having such a miserable time. Yes, remove her, and feel free to tell the leader why--not because your daughter can't hack it, but because she shouldn't have to hack it, because she is nine.

So organise your own drama group. Be the director of the show. Make your kid the lead for every performance. Easy. Having been involved in this type of thing before, I can say that anyone getting private coaching will be MORE likely to get a part and their lessons will revolve around practicing to make sure their songs/speaking parts are perfect. Life isn't fair. Take her somewhere else but be prepared for the same outcome. Or find an adult group who are performing something like "Oliver" and need a ton of kids.

I'd move your dd, too. These things don't tend to get better.

When I was little I was in a similar-ish sort of thing. It was run by an extended family. Every year they had an annual prize-giving where they awarded eachother most of the prizes. It was both hilarious and cringey.

Take her to another group or pull her out. It will slowly chip away at her confidence and self esteem and you will have a big job building them back up. It happens at a lot of activities and sports and tbh, those that run them would be ashamed of themselves, they are 9 year old children at a local group not auditioning for the west end.

I would move her if you have another nearby group you could go to. My son went to a drama group that only ever seemed to do shows involving the kids who also paid for private singing lessons. I pulled him out the week I picked him up and he was sitting on the side while the private lesson kids practised for their show - during the main drama group time that I was paying several pounds a week for. He also came out upset because the leaders had told him off when they asked him why he hadn’t bought tickets for the show and he repeated what I’d said to him - that I was saving my money for shows he was in. I asked him that day if he wanted me to ask about a place at another group. He did so I did, he joined and was in a show with them a few weeks later.

I hate it when the same kids are always given parts. As a long term supply teacher I was once told to give my best readers lines for a school assembly. I asked if I could break up the lines so all the children could say something but was told ‘no, at this school the parents understand that the best readers need to read in assemblies.’ Of course at parents evening I had a number of parents quite upset that their kids had never been chosen for any roles at school events. I made damned sure that at our next class assembly all the children had extensive parts!

Didn't you post this a couple weeks ago?

I recognise the bit about private lessons.

Apologies, it was a drama club.

Anyway, you might get some helpful advice on here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4454381-Another-bloody-school-play-one-sorry

@m00rfarm

So organise your own drama group. Be the director of the show. Make your kid the lead for every performance. Easy. Having been involved in this type of thing before, I can say that anyone getting private coaching will be MORE likely to get a part and their lessons will revolve around practicing to make sure their songs/speaking parts are perfect. Life isn't fair. Take her somewhere else but be prepared for the same outcome. Or find an adult group who are performing something like "Oliver" and need a ton of kids.

Yes, I was thinking it would be very easy for the teacher to argue (if challenged) that the parts were given on merit, to kids who are taking extra steps to improve themselves and who've put the extra hours in to practise and prepare. Whether that's the whole truth or not.

But you can tell her your DD wants to move to a group where she might get more opportunities, it doesn't have to be said in an accusatory way.

Have you asked for feedback? Openly asked why after 5 years, and 15 performances, she has never had a main part, and if there is a reason, or what would need to be worked on? Chances are you won't get an answer, or an answer you like, but at least you'd maybe get a bit of closure regarding it.

This sort of thing stays with you. I'm in my 50's and I clearly remember at school winning a major part, I was so chuffed!

However, when I turned up for practice, I was sent out several times on errands for the teacher. Turns out another classmate, the daughter of the school librarian, was given the part instead.

I was gutted and I don't remember Mum saying anything to the school either. So make sure you have your say on how your DD has been treated.

Yes regardless of those who 'are the best', at that age and the fact you are all paying for the same group it should be about nurturing the talents of all the children equally to promote confidence and an understanding of working together. Remove her, state exactly why, that you feel the ethos of the school isn't in line with what you want for your child and that those who can afford private lessons are be favourited, significantly increasing the disadvantage average children already have at the school. Then look for a couple of alternative schools within the area and send you daughter for a trial session or two to pick which one she likes!

Too many dancing and performing arts schools seem to be like this. I'd move her to a similar hobby elsewhere if I were you.

I would move her, pref to a school where they DON'T offer private tuition.
I can see why the kids having private tutorials are given the parts, from the school/club's perspective, because otherwise the parents will say "what's the point of paying extra, if they don't get the star roles?" and pull them out of the private classes.

But that's still not fair on other kids who don't have the private tuition. It's such a pain dealing with the "money talks" situations, it really is. :(

Before you join your daughter up to another group can you use the money you would normally pay for the group drama class to give your daughter some private lessons elsewhere? This might boost her confidence and give her a good head start before joining a new group.

You won't find that everywhere in my opinion. My dd14 goes to a local performing arts place that is inclusive, supportive and helps develop confidence.