Means testing State Pension

[CuriousMariette]

Do you think the time has come for this to be introduced? I don’t think the current system is sustainable as many people are living too long. I know it’s not fair and would be political suicide but Pensioner’s didn’t even suffer a 80% furlough during lockdowns. I say this from a place of having “paid in” as people say for 30 years plus already and would likely not receive a State Pension in this scenario.

Unless you earn very significantly over the national average salary if you have a family, or have no children and still earn a decent salary, then statistically you are very, very unlikely to be even covering your own expenses

Exactly what I said @SquidMonkey, before you remarked on my bizarre posts that showed I had no grasp of economics. 🤷‍♀️

It is means tested. Those that get the full state pension pay NI in for 35 years!

That's not means tested. It's the opposite. People who receive it are also more likely to also have other income in retirement.

And I’m not saying the higher earners will like it. That’s why it’s called progressive.

The higher earners will be funding it. That’s why it’s called progressive. Pretty logical.

😂😂😂

@DontBlameMe79

So you're also arguing for a one party state?

@SJFarter

The higher earners will be funding it. That’s why it’s called progressive. Pretty logical.

😂😂😂

And that sums up the problem.

Taxing people takes money from the wealthy. I'm a pensioner but I pay tax as I also have other income from a btl property. No need to cut pensions.

@DontBlameMe79

The problem is that you think that middle and high earners will continue to pay in at the rate they do now. Or are you planning on means testing voting too, so that only low earners are allowed to vote?

[quote SJFarter]@DontBlameMe79

So you're also arguing for a one party state?[/quote]
I’m arguing that means testing allows us to direct limited resources where they are most needed. The system now is inefficient as some do not need the state pension. I’m saying direct that money to those with more need.

This is not a radical concept and much of our state expenditure is directed this way. So why not pensions and health? The arguments against this are either selfish or selfish in disguise - ranting that it won’t work/no one will pay blah blah. The vested interests always say that.

[quote SJFarter]@DontBlameMe79

The problem is that you think that middle and high earners will continue to pay in at the rate they do now. Or are you planning on means testing voting too, so that only low earners are allowed to vote?[/quote]
There are a lot more low earners.

There are a lot more low earners.

How do you define low earners?

Below the 51st percentile. They would be in the majority.

@DontBlameMe79

Below the 51st percentile. They would be in the majority.

How are you going to get them all to vote and vote in the way that you tell them they should?

I’ll explain it with a great deal of charm…

Plus the champagne socialists like me who have higher incomes but also high guilt will also vote for it.

@DontBlameMe79

I’ll explain it with a great deal of charm…

Was it Marx or Engels who said that nothing improves for the lower classes until the middle classes are in side?

Are you going to use your charm to convince those that pay in to continue to fund a system they will see nothing from?

@DontBlameMe79

Plus the champagne socialists like me who have higher incomes but also high guilt will also vote for it.

Aren't champagne socialists the shy Tories? Vocal about their left wing credentials but vote Tory secretly when they think about how those left wing policies will actually affect them and their families.

No they are the Shy Tories. The clue is in the name.

@DontBlameMe79

No they are the Shy Tories. The clue is in the name.

Missing the point of what a shy Tory is there.

It is important to remember that the state pension is NOT a benefit. Pensioners have paid NI into a pension for at least 35 years (some up to 50 years) and are entitled to their pension.
Pension credit and top up benefits are means tested already.
If we means test the state pension then pensioners must also be offered the chance to opt out of paying into a state pension at all, paying rather into a private pension pot as the main pension.
That would mean for example, that the govt does not get to use 6% of my income for 40 years to spend on other stuff.

Missing the sarcasm

@MintJulia

It is important to remember that the state pension is NOT a benefit. Pensioners have paid NI into a pension for at least 35 years (some up to 50 years) and are entitled to their pension. Pension credit and top up benefits are means tested already. If we means test the state pension then pensioners must also be offered the chance to opt out of paying into a state pension at all, paying rather into a private pension pot as the main pension. That would mean for example, that the govt does not get to use 6% of my income for 40 years to spend on other stuff.

100% this. Infact id love it for then to offer me an option in or out. Cos I'd rather opt out and use the % i put in now to fund my own private pension that over time will compound and give me back more than what state pension would!

Means testing things like winter fuel payments and entitlement to bus passes would make sense though. If someone has £1m in private pension, it is hard to see how they need a winter fuel payment.

@Mintjura the government did have an opt out scheme for a while but private pensions aren't as reliable as they should be it also ade calculating pensions difficult as people move employers far more than they used to so people could end up with multiple years when they were opted out / in for part of the year. Hence they decided to scrap that scheme and have everyone opted in.

In the UK there are already criteria to receive a full state pension, which is 35 years of National Insurance contributions. The Government sets the age that you are eligible to receive the state pension & how much you will receive.

You can obtain National Insurance contributions via; working, receiving certain state benefits like child benefit, unemployment benefit, or by paying yourself.

Anyone can log into the Government Gateway & View their
State pension forecast
National Insurance record per year

The current state retirement age is 66
Therefore people have approx 50 working years to contribute into the system or claim benefits

State pension age due to further increase to 67, 68 & beyond

I've paid into the system