Means testing State Pension

[CuriousMariette]

Do you think the time has come for this to be introduced? I don’t think the current system is sustainable as many people are living too long. I know it’s not fair and would be political suicide but Pensioner’s didn’t even suffer a 80% furlough during lockdowns. I say this from a place of having “paid in” as people say for 30 years plus already and would likely not receive a State Pension in this scenario.

If you do that you'd turn the country back 80 years and before you know it you'd be scraping the entire Welfare State, sickness benefits, NHS all of it would slowly but surely go.

I think what would be better is to rework national insurance/tax and slowly make NI lower/increase tax so that unearned income (whether belonging to pensioners or others) eventually attracts same tax as earned income.

No thanks.

Ummm I don’t know. Part of me thinks it should be means tested at extreme levels. I know a few pensioners who receive state pension but have >2 million of assets.

That seems a little unfair but I don’t think for the broad population it’s a great idea

No.

No. I’d be strongly against it. The state pension is already the worst in Europe. Anyway, it effectively is means tested - with the pension credit to top it up for some.

No, it should be universal. But perhaps pensioners should continue to pay pay national insurance (or some other sort of tax).
I would go further and say that everyone should be on benefits, ie that should be universal too.
Means testing of benefits creates poverty traps and inequality and discourages saving and working.

Absolutely no chance whatsoever of it happening.

It's already incredibly expensive to build up any sort of worthwhile private pension. Who on earth would be thick enough to actually save for retirement if it now meant you were penalised for it?

It wouldn't be just a political disaster, it would be an economic one too.

No

No. I don’t have assets or savings but have always earned just enough to not qualify for anything except Child Benefit even as a single parent . This was because I did two jobs to keep our heads above water . I am looking forward to receiving the pension I have worked for for many years.

I actually agree but I'm a higher rate tax payer - not by much though - what incentive is there for people to earn more and pay more in tax - they don't get any more from the state than someone who contributes the bare minimum? Despite being in a highher tax band I have no more valuable assets than my sibling who works part time - we will both end up getting the same state pension 🤷🏻‍♀️

Far too complicated/expensive

And pensions credit (the means tested top up) already exists

When I started working Idid not know what I would have now.

Time and working my bollocks off has been kind to me. I probably get less out that I have put in and some people get more out than they have put in - that is enough of a leveller.

Meanstesting would mean I want all my contributions back please - I am not a charity,

If this were to be introduced, you can be certain that the number of people who qualified for the state pension (i.e. had no relevant assets) would go through the roof. Why save into a private pension scheme (for example) if you are going to be penalised for it?

No way. I’m not paying in for 30 plus years just so all the lazy cheapskates who can’t be bothered to work get my contributions. If I’ve paid in, I’m having it thanks very much. And before anyone accuses me of it, yes I’m a Tory voting Daily Mail reader.

No. Because it will get removed at a much harsher level than those wanting means testing would assume and will leave many struggling rather like tax credits etc.

What would be saved by removing pension from the super rich would not be worth the cost of assessing for it, and it is likely that those at that level are also giving more back than they receive in state pension anyway!

OK let’s have your opinion of the age that a person has lived too long.

You have to have 35 years of national insurance contributions for full state pension, that is qualification enough.

so you're saying that retied people should not receive the pension that they have paid in for, over many years.
and what do you mean, that many people are living too long.
how very dare they.
maybe they should be persuaded to have the good grace to drop off at, what, 80, 70 , 60, or some other age that you happen to not be. yet.

No. Most of my jobs over 40 years were low paid with no pension scheme. I at least want back the benefit of what we paid in. We know what the current govt thinks is a reasonable amount to live on. People have starved to death on their policies.

So if that's the case will everyone get a full refund on their lifetime NI contributions ?
do That and you cripple the UK as pension is paid from those currently paying in , you don't accrue a pot that is just for you. The larger the salary the more you pay so technically it's mean tested already . What about those who die before reaching pension age ? It's not given back to the family !

@80sMum

No, it should be universal. But perhaps pensioners should continue to pay pay national insurance (or some other sort of tax). I would go further and say that everyone should be on benefits, ie that should be universal too. Means testing of benefits creates poverty traps and inequality and discourages saving and working.

They are still eligible to pay income tax but not NI.

No, it wouldn't work for the reasons stated above. I believe that we are actually moving in in the opposite direction as well. Productivity is crashing , and we have probably reached peak stuff. The appetite for work is plummeting. We are heading towards a universal payment for all citizens, throughout life.

No. As pp, its really difficult to build up a private pension and there will less incentive to do so for people around the thresholds.
I thought pensioners still paid income tax if there income was over the tax free allowance anyway.
I can see raising the age was sensible and it might have to go to 70 to keep it a decent amount. People can still retire earlier but know they only have to fund fully until 70 when a sensible state pension kicks in.