Means testing State Pension

[CuriousMariette]

Do you think the time has come for this to be introduced? I don’t think the current system is sustainable as many people are living too long. I know it’s not fair and would be political suicide but Pensioner’s didn’t even suffer a 80% furlough during lockdowns. I say this from a place of having “paid in” as people say for 30 years plus already and would likely not receive a State Pension in this scenario.

Exactly what Lemonlady says and the PP who pointed out that the average age rate has now started to decline - it's already peaked and that ship has sailed.

So State Pensions will become more affordable in time - reduced life expectancy, increased age before you can claim=increased contributions into the system beyond the bare minimum.

Gissa Job....

Living too long?!

My husband has just died at the age of 66. Do you think he got enough back from his contributions?

Government should address that which makes it harder for people to have children, or we are going to be in a real crisis in a generation or so.
Housing costs, benefit caps and cuts, energy increases all- all make it much harder to afford children.

It's a huge issue & I think the ship has sailed.

"In 50 years there are projected to be an additional 8.6 million people aged 65 years and over – a population roughly equivalent to the size of London (ONS, 2018k)"

As other pps have said, by the time I can get my state pension, I will have paid NI for 50 years. If you want my state pension to be means tested, fine, but I will have my contributions back please. Apart from child benefit and maternity allowance for my first DC, I have never claimed any other benefit. I don't think it's too much to expect to receive the pension I have paid in to for the last 43 years.

Young people who are looking at a state pension age of 68 (despite unlikely to live longer) will end up paying far more than 35 years

I started work at 15. I paid in for 52 years. Is that long enough?

What should also be taken into account is the amount of free childcare provided by senior citizens to their working age children.

How is this relevant? Plus it's probably similar to the amount of adult children who help card for elderly relatives.

Well they couldn’t exactly introduce it for anyone who has already begun to pay NI contributions. So, if it were to ever be introduced it wouldn’t be for another 50+ years.

I started work at 15. I paid in for 52 years. Is that long enough?

I don't think you understand, the amount of years anyone pays in over & above isn't actually relevant because we all pay it forward. My NI wasn't put in a pot for me to collect when I retire. My money funded others above me just as mine will be funded by those below me.

I've worked for 43 years with 8 more to go so 51 years...if I'm still alive...if I'm dead I won't see a penny, it will go to someone else, hardly fair, but that's the way it is and happens to many people. My sister has lived on benefits her whole life, never paid tax or NI, she will still get a pension...thats what isn't right. Never put in the 'pot' but still takes out of it. That's what needs to be stopped!

No not at all
If people have missed years it's made up with pension credit anyway

Most people's occupational pensions aren't anywhere near like what their parents/ grandparents had either - I'd say there is very few final salary schemes about

It needs to be kept as is

My money funded others above me just as mine will be funded by those below me

The op on this thread is about stopping people who have funded pensions getting pensions, so fund others but get nothing is it not?

@monfuseds

Perhaps the new health & social care levy which pensioners will have to pay should be a higher % for wealthier people

Pensioners aren’t paying it. It’s coming from NI which only working people pay.

No.

For the very simple reason it's MORE expensive to administrate it than just dispensing it to everyone

Just like a universal basic income SAVES the country money

I get the paying it forward bit, so the youngsters today are paying it forward for people near retirement now, so maybe we stop pensions for them in 30 years time....do you think they will be OK with that?

@Lemonlady22

I've worked for 43 years with 8 more to go so 51 years...if I'm still alive...if I'm dead I won't see a penny, it will go to someone else, hardly fair, but that's the way it is and happens to many people. My sister has lived on benefits her whole life, never paid tax or NI, she will still get a pension...thats what isn't right. Never put in the 'pot' but still takes out of it. That's what needs to be stopped!

In any humane system, there will always be those who get carried.

Save your anger for multinational companies who pay fuck all tax.

Wtaf! NI is a contract between you and the government, you pay this tax and in return you received a state pension fro. Retirement age. If you want that contract to fundamentally change I want all my contributions back.

Unbelieveable! All that will do is make people not aspire to work and save, why bother you can live off the state for life off the backs of people who do work and those who work to better their lives are penalised for it by having their state pension means tested. You might as well just take all my fucking money at this point and give it to lazy workshy people.

@Blossomtoes i think in 23 it's paid by pensioners still working.

That's terrible @FruitMelange**

Yeah, it's crap, but it's the experience of many, isn't it?
She was already used to being frugal. As we all were, and are still!
Bless her, she was money poor but rich in every other way.

@feelsobadfeltsogood

No not at all If people have missed years it's made up with pension credit anyway

Most people's occupational pensions aren't anywhere near like what their parents/ grandparents had either - I'd say there is very few final salary schemes about

It needs to be kept as is

no its not. pension credit gets you back up to the minimum but you won't get as much as if you have the full number of years.

Wtaf! NI is a contract between you and the government, you pay this tax and in return you received a state pension fro. Retirement age. If you want that contract to fundamentally change I want all my contributions back.

The issue is I believe from about 2018 the money paid in from NI became less than what was paid out. The deficit is going to keep growing & will run out apparently in the next 10 years.

You might as well just take all my fucking money at this point and give it to lazy workshy people.

🙄

[quote monfuseds]@Blossomtoes i think in 23 it's paid by pensioners still working. [/quote]
Which won’t be many. I was knackered at 66, having paid NI for 49 years.

There is a huge issue coming soon with a rapidly ageing population and population decline around the world. The model of many young providing for a few old is going to be turned on its head.

That being said automation should fill up a lot of the lost productivity so I think it would make more sense to have a universal basic income rather than just providing a pension.

But that all depends if we can walk the line between being pragmatic and being ideological and I don't have much hope

Yep, started full-time work at 15, didn't have a child until I was 39 - I knew it was unfeasible before then if you were a single, unsupported woman on a low wage. And, unless, it all works out tickety-boo, seems
things hadn't moved on as much as I thought by 2003.

It's now 2022, things may have moved on, but now I'm in a position to work more after 15+years of caring, no one wants to give me a job. So I have to scrape by on my self-employed earnings which is low enough to qualify for Carers Allowance but enough so Council Tax wants a constantly changing chunk of it (often more than what UC pays working unpaid Carers).

It's too much really, the stress of it will probably put paid to me so I'll hardly even get to Pension Age - already qualified 40+ years including a few years of double payments when the self-employed stamp was £7.20!!! way back in the 1980s.

Gissa Job.