Presence of evil

[beachcitygirl]

Aibu to ask if you've ever felt yourself in the presence of evil. Following on from
The intuitiion thread.

I once met a friend of my ex in a coffee shop. The man was nothing but civil & friendly. Soft spoken & was an ex police officer. My then husband was there also.
I went to the loo & spent ages as something about him made me feel afraid. I stress it was just a feeling. Zero untoward behaviour.
Many years later he was arrested & found guilty of violent rape.

Has anyone else ever sensed evil? (For want of a better word)

Unfortunately I've experienced evil. I've no idea where it came from and why. I was a teenager and for a couple of days I felt paralysed with fear. Darkness descended and I couldn't shake it off. It was as if something vile and terrifying was standing next to me to get me, but I couldn't see it. The only thing that mattered was trying to get away, so I prayed. I'm not religious. I don't have a mental illness and I've thankfully never again experienced anything similar. On a separate occasion, I saw a man on the underground when I was 10-12. He was staring at me. His expression was perfectly nondescript but something in his eyes filled me with pure terror and I felt the urge to escape and get off the train. This never happened again and I'm nearly 30.

[quote MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry]@Alexandra2001 I’m really not sure what you want from me- you want me to explain the reasons behind every act of murder/abuse/torture- no one can actually do that. It would involve in depth investigation into the perpetrators’ lives. Sure- some people will have access to that information for some perpetrators- I am not any of those people so I can’t give you specific reasons for their actions.[/quote]
No of course not but i was hoping for something more general, say childhood trauma (i'm f$$ked!) or fetal alcohol syndrome... something like that?

Just seems odd that you vehemently disagree but can offer no alternative explanation.

@2gen I apologise for misrepresenting the words you used in your post. I posted my interpretation of them rather than the actual words. I did find your post condescending, although perhaps it isn’t intended to be.

No of course not but i was hoping for something more general, say childhood trauma (i'm f$$ked!) or fetal alcohol syndrome... something like that?

Well yes, obviously, both those things will play a part in some crimes, amongst many countless other things.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

No of course not but i was hoping for something more general, say childhood trauma (i'm f$$ked!) or fetal alcohol syndrome... something like that?

Well yes, obviously, both those things will play a part in some crimes, amongst many countless other things.

...but thats the thing, many people under go horrific childhood trauma, far far worse than anything i experienced but they don't become killers or paedophiles, equally, people with fairly normal up bringing's & decent genes, end up torturing pets and go on to be serial killers.

Something else is happening and evil explains it.

This is so interesting (and in places frightening). I suppose what interested me most is that people aren't commenting on being wrong. Nobody who had a feeling someone was bad and was later proven wrong. Seems important to me.

[quote 2Gen]@TatianaBis
I agree. As far as I can see, there are a lot of evil acts committed in the world and always have been. What else can torture,rape, murder, genocide, tyranny, slavery and serious child abuse be called but evil?
I also believe in the existence of the supernatural and the preternatural personification of evil, the Devil and his demons because I'm a Christian but I know many people don't. That does not mean that there is no evil though- see the above.
I'd suggest people who claim there's no such thing as evil do a bit more reading and research. M. Scott Peck's "The People of the Lie" is a good one and I'd also recommend reading about the Cluster B personality disorders and the "Dark Triad" personality traits.[/quote]
Human.

That’s literally all it is. It’s awful, horrible, terrifying, disgusting. But it is entirely human behaviour to torture, kill, hurt etc. We may not like it (I certainly don’t) and it isn’t humane, but it isn’t marked by some demonic understanding of evil, it’s just the unpleasant side of humanity.

I think though people don’t want to associate themselves with it. If you say ‘that behaviour is evil!’ It’s similar to saying ‘I am human and I would never do that so it must be something else, something impure and horrible and not human. A monster. Something evil.’

Plus, all murderers are mentally ill, this reason should never be allowed to escape justice.*

Well, I disagree with that for a start. It's possible to be a perfectly sane and rational human being and intentionally kill another person. That's why people are assessed before they stand trial and in some cases plead insanity.

I've certainly encountered people and places that made me fearful for my safety, but I view them as "dangerous", "unstable", or "erratic"as opposed to inherently evil.

Some part of me believes in evil, partly because I definitely, absolutely believe in GOOD, as in kindness and selflessness. I know that lots of people spend their lives working hard to improve the lives of others and bring them happiness.

But I think there are probably others who are motivated by causing hardship and pain for it's own sake. And even if those people aren't inherently evil, their intentions certainly are.

but thats the thing, many people under go horrific childhood trauma, far far worse than anything i experienced but they don't become killers or paedophiles, equally, people with fairly normal up bringing's & decent genes, end up torturing pets and go on to be serial killers.

Something else is happening and evil explains it.

Do you understand that trauma (for example) affects different people in different ways? We don’t all start out the same. There are genetic tendencies towards different behaviours that are stronger in some than in others. Upbringing plays a massive part, societal exposure, individual circumstances at the time of the attack. So many factors affect how people behave. Two people who have experienced the same traumatic event will process it differently. Just because some people who have experienced trauma haven’t gone on to kill someone doesn’t mean those that did are evil.

@Kanaloa you don't know where it comes from. We're animals so it's entirely possible there's no such thing as evil and therefore there's no such thing as good. Everything humans do and experience is just 'neutral'- cuddles and torture. But there's no way to prove it and there's no way to conclusively disprove it, so keep your mind open.

@Grendalsmum

My DP has to visit shops and offices as part of his job and one idiot woman actually complained to his company that she got a scary vibe from him ( we've been together for eons and he's the kindest and gentlest person l know, so l think she was just having a bad day and projecting ) l'm on here looking for a post about him!

My brother had the same. The woman wouldn’t let him in until she had phoned the company, which he told her to do, but even then he said she was giving him dirty looks and looking very uncomfortable while he was there. Must be quite uncomfortable being the object of someone’s “bad vibes”.

[quote Alexandra2001]@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry She didn't actually say that did she?

Anyway, moving on, do you mind explaining what you believe motivates people to do horrific acts on other people?

I'm willing to change my mind.[/quote]
Some people are bad people. Some are acting out violent cycles from their childhood. Some may have a mental illness. Some may be damaged by societal influences that have warped their understanding of appropriate social behaviour. Maybe it’s a primal animal thing and some people overcome our civilised social behaviours and just do whatever they want. Maybe they make a mistake and it’s seen as evil.

Usually there is an explanation if you look into a specific case. It doesn’t mean those people who do bad things are good people/misunderstood victims, it just means that trying to other them as somehow inherently evil both removes blame from society in preventing it and removes blame from the person by removing the idea of their personal choice and presuming they are somehow marked with some supernatural malice when in fact they’re much more likely to be a damaged person making bad decisions.

@CaveWoman1

I’m more fascinated by feelings of negativity associated with places. People I understand, because I think we’re primed by thousands of years of evolution to read one another and asses risk.

But what on earth is going on when one experiences a negative presence in a location, or a building? I assume there’s association involved by prior knowledge of any wrongdoing that may have happened ever there. But that doesn’t explain why someone can walk into a house they’ve never seen before & have a physically adverse reaction, or go to a location that’s seemingly innocent & feel undiluted fear.

There is a pub in Devon that we went to on hols once or twice a few years in a row. We would usually be seated in the main bit or near the bar and it was very nice.

The last year we went they had renovated it a bit (it was no longer as nice and basically gentrified for the London crowd but that is neither here nor there) Any how we got seated in a large back area, the lighting was dim and the temp was oppressively warm and stuffy. The atmosphere of the room made be feel ill and nauseous, my DP felt the same. There were plenty of other people in the room and the rest of my family were fine but it was so bad we left dinner early even though it was the last meal of the holiday. We both felt fine after getting outside.

Could be any reason, a Corbin monoxide leak maybe or the humidity (I usually feel awful when it’s humid and a thunderstorm is about to break) or maybe the dark stuffy room just wasn’t very pleasant but the whole thing was bizarre,

[quote HappyBunny123456789]@Kanaloa you don't know where it comes from. We're animals so it's entirely possible there's no such thing as evil and therefore there's no such thing as good. Everything humans do and experience is just 'neutral'- cuddles and torture. But there's no way to prove it and there's no way to conclusively disprove it, so keep your mind open.[/quote]
I’m afraid I won’t be keeping my ‘mind open’ to the idea that crimes are caused by some supernatural concept of evil. I simply don’t believe that in the same way I don’t ‘keep my mind open’ to psychics or anything like that.

The problem with this kind of thread is that no one is going to come on and say 'Oh, Jimmy Savile was a lovely bloke, always had a smile for me' or 'Say what you like about Fred West but he made a cracking job of my kitchen extension'...

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry I do understand that, but it doesn't explain truly "evil" acts.

*carbon monoxide

Lol, can’t blame Corbin for this one!

Ok @Alexandra2001. I’ll leave it there. You’re asking me to explain “truly evil acts” when it’s something that I don’t believe exists. It’s a pointless question. You’re going in circles. You might as well ask me to explain how Jesus walked on water. I can’t because it didn’t happen.

What ‘truly evil acts’ is it that can’t be explained? Like can someone actually name an ‘evil act’ that can’t be explained by anything other than the inherent ‘evil’ someone was born with.

@kanaloa I understand it's more comfortable to have a rational explanation for anything. But that means there's no "good" either, there's just people who had nice upbringings and parents who taught their children to behave. The people who go on to torture, murder and take pleasure in others pain must have been treated pretty badly by their parents. No Peppa for them, just government Covid briefings! :D

In a room with Peter Tobin before he was found guilty of his evil acts. There was just something about him that made me very very frightened and sent shivers down my back

[quote HappyBunny123456789]@kanaloa I understand it's more comfortable to have a rational explanation for anything. But that means there's no "good" either, there's just people who had nice upbringings and parents who taught their children to behave. The people who go on to torture, murder and take pleasure in others pain must have been treated pretty badly by their parents. No Peppa for them, just government Covid briefings! :D[/quote]
No it doesn’t. I think you might be struggling to understand. There are good and bad actions. Some of those bad actions are crimes. I do not believe that people who commit those crimes do so because they are fundamentally evil/marked with some supernatural concept of ‘evil.’

And as for comforting to believe blah blah - that’s not me, that’s you. I believe humans are extremely complex creatures who are shaped by their genetics, experiences, culture, and society. You believe that some of us are ‘good’ and some are inherently ‘evil’ as in marked with some supernatural form of malice.

That’s extremely reductive. It’s like a children’s fairytale level of simplicity. This is the good person. She does good things because she was born good. This is the evil person!! She does evil things because she is evil.

It refuses to consider the actual reality of the human condition.

Many years ago when I was a teenager, I was walking down a quiet country lane after finishing an afternoon shift at my waitressing job. A fat, ugly, leering man pulled up alongside of me and offered me a lift. He chilled me to the bone and I somehow knew if I got in that car, something terrible would happen to me. I refused and carried on walking very quickly. To my relief, he drove off but instead of waiting ages to catch a bus home as I'd planned, I walked to the nearest phone box and rang my mum at work, begging her to collect me immediately. She told me to wait in the little shop nearby until she arrived. Unfortunately, it was early closing day and I was too shy to tell the shopkeeper about the man and ask if I could wait with her, as I would do if it happened now. I sat outside the shop on a wall, waiting for my mum. It was in a little village and there was absolutely no one around. Suddenly, the car driven by the scary man pulled up alongside me and he asked if I'd had a nice phone call. I realised he must have driven ahead and waited for me, watching while I rang my mum. I was absolutely terrified but told him that I'd rung the police and given them his car registration number and that an officer was on the way to meet me. He swore at me but drove off and my mum arrived soon after. She laughed when I told her and thought I was over exaggerating. Years later I was convinced that I saw the man again on the news. It was levi Bellsfield, the evil monster who murdered young Millie Dowler and some other poor girls.

@Kanaloa I can see why you've extrapolated what I've written to conclude I divide people into goodies and baddies based on some supernatural force. That's not true. I don't know what makes them do what they do. I don't know why I like to stroke pets and some people get actual pleasure from hurting them. I've wondered if we're not all fundamentally "good",but we're born with limitations that are exacerbated by our upbringing. I honestly think think in this scenario Hitler was just born bitter, he didn't actively choose to be evil but his genes and a couple of sucky life events enraged him.