Seller trying to charge £'000s on top for existing fitted window shutters!

[MrsKT123]

We're buying a house and have had the fixtures and fittings report back and our seller has noted that the fitted window shutters are not included and would be an extra few thousand £s if we'd like them to stay! (Don't want to give exact amount in case they're on here!)

We're already paying considerably over asking price, had no quibbles on around £5ks worth of work required noted on our survey and have said we're happy to exchange and complete in order with their timescale (they have asked for an extended period between exchange and completion). We love the house and just want things to go smoothly.

I'm really disappointed by this as I would not have expected them to be taking these as they're made-to-measure and I know the house they are buying and there's no way they'd fit. To me, it's like taking the kitchen cupboards or built in wardrobes with them.

Surely it's more hassle to them to get them removed and put good the decoration for all windows in the house (large 5-bed with some bay windows)?

YABU - you shouldn't expect fitted window shutters to be included
YANBU - of course fitted window shutters should be included

OP this seems a red flag to me

Also, you mention they want a long period between exchange and completion, which to me would be another red flag. Do you know why they asked for that?

I know in many other countries banks give 'bridging loans' which allow you to make a house purchase before you've sold your own house and have the cash from that sale but for whatever weird reason they just don't do it in the UK.

It’s entirely due to the broken system of buying and selling in the UK. In the US and Australia, you are very certain within 2.5 weeks of offer that your property will be bought or sold so bridging finance is cheap and accessible.

Whereas here, you can wait months and months and have buyers/sellers back out at any point for spurious reasons, so it’s too risky to offer bridging finance.

I wish there was a brave government minister who took this issue on.

@Snoken said The UK is really the odd one out here with a very complicated and outdated system

I mean, yes, you could say that about a million aspects of the UK, starting with the monarchy and working downwards..!

But some of the solutions that seem simple overseas are completely unworkable here, because the infrastructure and systems are different. For instance, there is a massive housing shortage in the UK. There just aren't short-term (monthly!) lets available to drop in and out of when you're moving house. And house sizes are far smaller on average than in the US or Aus, so moving in with friends and family for a few weeks is often impossible.

You couldn't just change one aspect of the sytem without taking into account thepracticalities that have grown up around the system.

Scotland doesn’t have bigger houses and any less of a housing shortage, and they cope.

Australia definitely has a very acute housing shortage. I don’t know anyone who has gone into short term rented there, rather they are able to organise completion to overlap so you get 1-2 weeks to move.

They absolutely have chains, they just rarely complete &move on the same day as they do here. Because there is certainty of sale within a matter of a fortnight, there’s no overwhelming need for the whole chain to exchange and complete on the same day.

They are actually moving to a house which is on the same road we're on now - our agent has sold all 3 properties and mentioned it to us in a 'what a coincidence' kind of way

The EA is your secret weapon here. No way will the EA want to potentially lose 3 sales if the chain collapses.

Talk to the EA about this. Say that as they know you offered above asking. You kept to your offer even though the survey reveals xyz. Given the survey etc you are now at top of budget and cannot be pushed further. ESP given the inconvenience of their timescale. Say the shutters need to be included or you will consider pulling out.

We could change gazumping (and gazundering), though - and that's much of the pain here.

It's awful that sellers can keep accepting higher and higher offers or that those buying can drop their offer right at the end. There needs to be a cut off earlier in the process that is binding, bar a change of circumstances - in which case the person backing out should be liable for any costs already spent by the other party (within reasonable boundaries).

"peridito

How do posters suggest that the making good (if shutters removed ) is enforced ?"

I guess you insist it's done before exchanging and you will inspect before exchange?

But if the sellers did a crap job and said that's it ,how many buyers would pull out and start again ?

@TheGoldenWolfFleece

Our new bathroom was ridiculously expensive too. When we put our house on the market I think we'll take it with us, and if it doesn't fit in the new house I guess we'll just sell it.

That's just nuts. The house is surely priced to reflect that its got a nice bathroom. Yet you'd take it with you and leave... What in its place? Such weird behaviour.

Clearly missed the sarcasm there

@MasterBeth

That is definitely the same in Sweden and not unique for the UK. Sweden also has housing shortages and you wait years/decades for a rental property. However, like in the UK, there is Airbnb and the likes to bridge the gap. I think the main issue I have with the UK system is that the buyer or seller can pull out at any time all the way until the very end. I don't see a reason why it has to be like that, and I can't see how the UK infrastucture has anything to do with it.

My parents bought and sold many times here in Australia and we always had simultaneous settlements. Never had to move in with anyone. Nor have anyone I know done so. The market has been strong here for so long you know if you put your property up it will sell so people would put things up for sale, then look for somewhere, expecting they could juggle the settlement dates between them.

The main difference that keeps things moving is the that you commit on exchange and that happens right at the start. In NSW you make an offer, if accepted exchange contracts almost immediately (within a day or so), the clock starts and you have five working days to pull out of anything untoward comes up in your searches. Once the deadline passes, you’re committed or you forfeit your 10% deposit. There’s no months of waiting and then coming back and renegotiating the sale price like I see in endless threads here. You’re done, committed to everything going smoothly or you’ll really regret it.

Settlement is usually 6 weeks but people are usually willing to negotiate. The difference being you’re agreeing up front and then committed to that date so everyone makes things work and you don’t care what anyone else is doing, that’s their business - they are committed or will face very expensive consequences. It’s not like England where chains are so subject to changes right up to the end. Settlement day will happen or whoever screws it up will be paying penalties. So there’s none of that infuriating faffing around or cheeky demands you read on MN threads.

A PP asked about deposits. Yeah bloody hard to save up for. Prices are insane. I saved hard for many years and I had to move way out of Sydney afford to buy. I had 10% but borrowed 95%, so 5% deposit and the other 5% needed for costs including stamp duty.

OP really cheeky of them - I’d definitely call their bluff!

Buying here was so straightforward I get more stressed reading threads about other people’s situations than I ever got buying my own place 😂

In the US, anything to be removed by the seller that is physically attached to the house has to be specifically mentioned in the contract, otherwise, it stays. Appliances are assumed to be included as well. When we sold our last house I wanted to take my Miele washing machine, so that had to be made clear when the price was agreed on.

OP, perhaps offer the seller 500 quid to leave them.

I think they are entitled to take them but you are entitled to bring up issues on survey that they may not know about. Ensure they make good walls.

I'd go back and say you expected them included, mention the other things and ask if they will reconsider.

But if they are CF and likely to rip the shutters out to spite you I would be prepared to pay something notional for them.

You’re going to have to hard nose it I’m afraid. You decide if this is a dealbreaker or not. You have to be prepared to walk away. Just say “thanks for the offer but we’ve got no money left so it’s a no on the window shutters” just force them to either leave them or remove them. If they say they will remove then just leave it and let them get on with it. All this stuff is decor. I’d rather spend the next 5 years with temp curtains and saving up for new shutters than letting them get away with this shitty behaviour.

I had similar several houses ago about curtains and light fittings. Just before exchange agent rang and said vendors wanted an extra £1500 for curtains and light fittings. I said no. Agent came back with "are you saying you'll let this fall through for £1500. I responded nope nut you have three houses in this chain and the commission adds up to £12,000 or thereabouts so if this is likely to fall through and cause the chain to collapse I suggest you deal with the £1500.

No £1500 required. Curtains and light fittings left which were ghastly

I moved into a house once and they had picked all the flowers in the garden

Hmm Tricky one.

On the one hand, I would argue that you can get a better price for your house because you've got shutters - so in other words the shutters have helped to sell the house.

On the other hand, shutters are a stupid price. I've got shutters in two bay windows - £2000. Only been in a couple of months. If I was going to move, I'd be wanting at least £2k more on asking price!

If i were moving to a similar house, I would definitely take them with me if I hadn't got the price I wanted for the house.

It's like light fittings. I wouldn't leave particularly posh ones either!

We have fitted window shutters, they cost a fortune but I wouldn't dream of taking them if we sold. For a start they are all bespoke so what would be the point! I think they're just trying it on because they are expensive. I'd tell them you are buying the house including the shutters and they must stay.

I remember someone removing an entire central heating system in a house in my road when I was growing up. I think the fixtures and fittings list might not have existed back then. lots of people try to make a bit more money at the end. I have shutters and I could definitely remove them myself and make good if I could be arsed. I might be able to get a few £100 as they will fit other houses in my street. I would have made an assumption the shutters would be left, along with other “fitted” but removable things such as kitchen cupboards, fitted wardrobes and awkward things like sheds. I would assume a built in oven would be left (although I’ve known them be swapped for a more basic replacement) but not necessarily an expensive range. People used to routinely take fitted carpets. If it’s something that isn’t going to be of use to the seller I’d call their bluff.

Oh also if they insist on taking them they need to make good any damage caused by removing them!

I would assume a built in oven would be left (although I’ve known them be swapped for a more basic replacement) but not necessarily an expensive range.

I bought a house (a complete tip in many respects) which ad a terrible kitchen but a fancy oven. It was made clear in the fixtures & fittings negotiation, that the oven would be removed. Didn't bother me, I was going to knock down the jerry-built kitchen extension anyway.

OP if you want the shutters, try negotiating on the price.

Or walk away. There is always another property. Take the emotion out of it. This is their deal: you negotiate, you accept, or you refuse.

When we bought our house, they asked us to pay 5000 for curtains and carpet in the living room and dining room. Rooms are big, but we said no thanks, carpets were green and horrid. They had to remove and dispose of them at their expense and we had to pay for new carpets just before moving in. In hindsight it helped but at the time, being pregnant it was a hassle we could have done without!

On a side note I really hate these ubiquitous window shutters and would have them removed if they were in a house I was buying.

Why do you hate them? They are so practical?