Seller trying to charge £'000s on top for existing fitted window shutters!

[MrsKT123]

We're buying a house and have had the fixtures and fittings report back and our seller has noted that the fitted window shutters are not included and would be an extra few thousand £s if we'd like them to stay! (Don't want to give exact amount in case they're on here!)

We're already paying considerably over asking price, had no quibbles on around £5ks worth of work required noted on our survey and have said we're happy to exchange and complete in order with their timescale (they have asked for an extended period between exchange and completion). We love the house and just want things to go smoothly.

I'm really disappointed by this as I would not have expected them to be taking these as they're made-to-measure and I know the house they are buying and there's no way they'd fit. To me, it's like taking the kitchen cupboards or built in wardrobes with them.

Surely it's more hassle to them to get them removed and put good the decoration for all windows in the house (large 5-bed with some bay windows)?

YABU - you shouldn't expect fitted window shutters to be included
YANBU - of course fitted window shutters should be included

OP, have you checked the TA10?

Good reliable proceed-able buyers are hard to come by. Not in the market we are buying in - plenty of proceed-able buyers living in rental, just waiting to buy. We made the mistake of thinking our position as cash buyers was something valuable - after losing out on several houses, we got the message.

Bizarre. My shutters are internal and sealed in with silicone. It would leave a mess if removed.

daisychain01 I had the same in a property I bought, with stinky old carpets the vendor tried to charge for and then - surprise, surprise - left

Frankly I wish they had taken them up, as the job of doing it myself and disposing of them was foul

Our seller dmtrued to do this. Lots of ground floor to ceiling windows where she had big green swishy silk curtains and huge pelmets. I thought they were hideous when we viewed and we knew that we would be putting shutters throughout as someone in the family has asthma so I instantly remove any dust gatherers. Pluse, they were really hideous. They weren't on the fixtures and fittings and she never mentioned them so I thought great, she's taking them. Then at the 11th hour she tried to charge as 5K to leave them all. We said no thanks, we'll be installing shutters. Of course she cba to actually take them all down so we had to, and remove poles,make good etc. I sold all the poles and rings and tie backs but the curtains were unsellable, they went in the fabric recycling.

She was another CF that was annoyed she'd had to accept an offer slightly below asking from us, after being on the amrket for a year, so was trying all sorts of ways to squeeze a bit more cash out of us. People really are pathetic.

@GatoradeMeBitch

I'd just say you'll pass on them, but that you've heard removing them can cause damage, and want assurances that the window area will be left in good condition. That would be my main concern, that you'll arrive in your new house to find chunks of plaster gouged out of the frames and surrounding area of every window in the house!

Very good point.

@ZombiePara

😂😂

The sellers of my old house did this to us as well... they wanted an extra £5-600 for the blinds (not as much as yours, but they were just standard blinds)

We shrugged and said that's fine - take them - we aren't paying for them.

Funnily enough they were left, as they were specific to fit the windows of the property,,,

As PP have said, they'll have to make good if they're taken, which is far more hassle and cost than they will want to be dealing with!

The sellers of my sister's house did this. They took the stuff. So OP, if you do call their bluff, they might just call yours.

A friend of mine bought a property with 12' (4m) ceilings and some of the windows had made-to-measure curtains. The vendor told my friend there would be an extra charge for the curtains, to which he agreed. I would have said no and left the vendor wondering how to remove 3.5m curtains and what to do with them afterwards. Chances are, they would have decided it wasn't worth the bother and left the curtains in situ.

Having not RTFT, I would apply the same principle in this situation.

@TheGoldenWolfFleece

Our new bathroom was ridiculously expensive too. When we put our house on the market I think we'll take it with us, and if it doesn't fit in the new house I guess we'll just sell it.

That's just nuts. The house is surely priced to reflect that its got a nice bathroom. Yet you'd take it with you and leave... What in its place? Such weird behaviour.

That was sarcasm from the poster - she isn't actually planning to take her bathroom.

I think this is quite fair and you can choose whether you purchase them or not.

Years ago property details pre internet always said something along the lines of:

Carpets and curtains excluded from sale or available by separate negotiation.

I think all my curtains and blinds would probably be between 20 and 25k to replace at least the buyer is giving you an option.

@MrsKT123 they are trying it on. I've sold two houses with shutters and have not charged as such. I considered it part of the asking price - it's part of the attraction for some - move in, no need to worry about windows. The effort to remove many shutters would certainly take more than an hour ( as per PP) and then the fixing to rights. I actually had shutters on bay windows and they are expensive. If it comes to that is the breaking of the deal then I would offer them something - depends on how many windows.

@TheGoldenWolfFleece

Our new bathroom was ridiculously expensive too. When we put our house on the market I think we'll take it with us, and if it doesn't fit in the new house I guess we'll just sell it.

That's just nuts. The house is surely priced to reflect that its got a nice bathroom. Yet you'd take it with you and leave... What in its place? Such weird behaviour.

The contract would have to state upfront that the bathroom would be removed.

It could be possible if the bath was one of those ones that sit in the middle of the floor on legs. However, if they remove the bath they would have to replace it with an alternative and state it in the contract.

Fixtures and fittings tend to be anything that isn't part of the fabric of the property, such that by removing them they don't cause significant damage. Removal of a bathroom could be subject to negotiation, in case the buyers intend to gut the bathroom anyway and think of it as one less job to do - they could negotiate a reduction in price. You couldn't just take away a bathroom and not say anything.

@stuckdownahole

A friend of mine bought a property with 12' (4m) ceilings and some of the windows had made-to-measure curtains. The vendor told my friend there would be an extra charge for the curtains, to which he agreed. I would have said no and left the vendor wondering how to remove 3.5m curtains and what to do with them afterwards. Chances are, they would have decided it wasn't worth the bother and left the curtains in situ.

Having not RTFT, I would apply the same principle in this situation.

Curtains are easier to resize than shutters though - especially if they are bigger and good fabric is so expensive - my friend paid £4k for her curtains for one room. We took all our curtains and they were shitty Ikea ones because we needed to put something up in the next house for privacy, whilst we decided on what we wanted permanently - we didn't want to sell them - not that they were worth much - but we did leave expensive walnut blinds and a huge wardrobe which were of no use to us, the buyer offered to pay us - but we said there was no need.

I wouldn't expect them to be included . As for make good are you going to ask for rooms to be redecorated where theres been pictures hanging and removed .
They'll of cost £1000's not a surprise they are taking them.

All my property information forms I've ever done specifically ask about window coverings and if they are included or what price if not. So they should have stated then. Shutters are a pita to move.
I wouldn't go nicely nicely 'would they reconsider'. Just say no thank you but if they are removed you'd expect any damage from that process to be repaired.
I kept my door knocker - it was from another country and I always take it. But I specifically say that's what I'm doing and put another in its place - in my last house the one I bought didn't fit so I left them money instead.

so what do you do with all your furniture? Are the rentals unfurnished? In the UK it's very difficult to find a rental with lease of less than 6 months. You can of course get an Air B&B for a shorter period but that is much more expensive plus you'd have to put your stuff in storage. How does that work in Australia?

As explained, the benefit here is the timeline for selling/buying is 6 weeks (where I am, there is a slight variation between states). So if you are selling, and someone wants to buy there is a period of roughly a week where they get building/pest inspection and bank confirms it’s okay (you have to have your money pre-approved). Then you all sign and you have 6 weeks to be out.

Sometimes you may be lucky and find something pretty much simultaneously and the seller for your new place will accept 8 weeks rather than 6 for example. I’ve never managed simultaneous and is rare amongst people I know. More so you just move out or your buyer is happy for you to rent the house back until you find somewhere, this tends to be when people are okay where currently living (such as with parents, long term house minding etc) and are happy for your rent to pay their mortgage.

The whole furnished/unfurnished thing is odd given our short time frames. People are only generally between houses for 2-6 weeks typically so the need for furniture is moot. Basically it becomes a ‘camping adventure’ on someone’s floor and most people can hack this for such a short time period, even with kids. Just involves a LOT of alcohol for both you and people who have kindly donated spare room/garage/lounge room floor to you.

Worse comes to worse there are often holiday parks with holiday cabin or short term let furnished apartments that will do an excellent deal if you are staying for weeks as opposed to nights. We once did a 3 month let on an unfurnished unit landlord was trying to sell and tenants had moved out of. Blow up bed for DH and I. Sleeping bags for kids. Some beanbags, kids sat on their pillows on floor. We just took tv, wok, rice cooker and microwave, minimal cups/plates/glasses/cutlery, minimal toiletries and had one clothes basket each we lived out of. Hardly stressful for 3 months! Just shoved clothes baskets and sleeping bags in cupboard when prospective buyers came and maybe only a glass or two in the sink. No stress.

People will generally help out with pets if needed minding them. Not uncommon for someone’s spare room, bathroom or laundry to be taken over with a cat or two for a few weeks when necessary. Most people will happily mind a dog if she not for few weeks. Sure cats may not like being locked in a room or dog may not get walked but for a few weeks, meh. We’ve all been there so most people try and pay it forward if they can.

When we bought our house, we'd offered etc and they'd accepted, the solicitor then showed us the list of what is/isn't included. The main bedroom had a fitted wardrobe and they wanted a grand for it. The solicitor laughed and said just ignore it they won't be getting more for something built in, it'll be more hassle for them to remove it, they are chancers. So we said well we planned to rip them out so hopefully they will remove them for us, nope. Got the keys and they were still there!! I'd say your shutters are the sane thing, it'll cost them to remove them and sort the frames out where they've been attached, there's no way they will do this. If it was our solicitor he'd say ignore the request. If they do remove them themselves and damage the windows there'll be repercussions for them legally so I wouldn't be offering more for something that is part of the building.

@Unescorted

In the UK we don't use bridging loans so all the transactions have to back to back - meaning everyone has to be ready to go on the same day. We also don't have a sellers pack containing the searches or title deeds. These are done by the buyer once draft contracts are sent out by the vendor's solicitor.

Title searches are complicated by land ownership structures dating back to Henry VIII and his need for money to fund his lifestyle. Prior to that all land was owned by the Crown or church. H8 sold on a mostly leasehold basis some of his crown land to his Barons... creating "shires" which to this day remain as leasehold land. Some of that land was also sold on a freehold basis - this led to manorial rights, where the surface was sold but not the land underneath ( foundations weren't a thing then).

On top of that there are really complex laws surrounding covenants which are personal or run with the land that need to be unpicked. Some can be safely ignored like parking your steam engine in the street outside, or hanging your washing out on a Sunday. Others like paying 30% uplift to to the original vendor or successors in title need a harder look at.

Then there are all the Rights of Way (footpaths, bridleways, permissive, adverse and inferred are the most common). Easements, mining rights by statutory bodies.

Also there are the planning issues to work through - s106, masterplans ( you don't want to buy a property to find HS2 is running through your living room) et al.

Finally - if you are buying a property that has not been sold since 1985 it may not be registered so the vendor has to prove good title.

we moved twice as my late DH's company wanted him elsewhere and both times the company funded bridging loans. IIRC it was quite expensive and not something we could have afforded without support.

@marpelier

Why is the property market so difficult over there? I have bought and sold several houses here in Australia. You view the house, you make an offer ( or it goes to auction ) and if your offer is accepted or you win the auction then you exchange and give a 10% deposit. 6 or so weeks after that you settle and that is that. There is a contract , that you sign on exchange that lists inclusions and anything unusual that is not included. That's it. If either party wants it changed you do it then, before any money has changed hands. Once it's signed it's done ( if it's an auction) if it is a private treaty sale there is a 5day cooling off period where you can back out of the sale completely. After that you can't stuff about changing the price or asking for discounts or wanting to take away the blinds or anything that wasn't in the contract. It's done. Most people get property and pest inspections prior to making an offer but that's up to you. If the place is full of termites or mould or falling down or whatever then you don't buy it or make a very low offer. It's pretty simple. We also don't have "chains" which seem to be where you guys sell on the basis that you will buy the next persons place, who sells on the basis that the next person will buy theirs and so. Why do you do that??????

Re: OP. I'd tell them to take them as it seems to be legal in your country and it's not worth the hassle to argue about it . Use the money you didn't give them to get your own window coverings if the weirdos do actually go ahead and take them.

It's down to the banking system here.

For whatever weird reason the banks here will not lend you money to put down a 10% deposit. So unless you have that kind of money hanging around in your savings account everyone has to exchange contracts on the same day.

I know in many other countries banks give 'bridging loans' which allow you to make a house purchase before you've sold your own house and have the cash from that sale but for whatever weird reason they just don't do it in the UK.

I wish they would!

We were told the sellers would be taking curtain poles and loo roll holders with them! They didn't in the end as we made a fuss.

@MrsKT123 we really don't want to cause any fuss

OP a transaction the size of a house purchase is really not the place to be "nice".

If they count as fixed to the fabric they should be left. If they count as removable like curtains then they would be negotiable but should have been flagged up earlier. I would tell them to take their bloody shutters but you want to inspect the "making good". Also if they want to bung in late extras then pick up the work highlighted in the survey.

You say you are offering over the odds to get this house so presumably a popular area. Will they not been in the same position and not want to risk losing their house?

People in England do move out into rented property for a while if their house purchase is lagging behind their sale -- often so that they don't lose the sale (and EA is hassling them for a quick move so they get their commission sooner.)
We did this and I don't recommend it - it's too open ended and you can get stuck or shafted if things don't go smoothly with the purchase of the next property. We had an offer on a property accepted and it was progressing reasonably well.
In our case we didn't need a mortgage - paying for the new house with proceeds from the sale.
We'd thought we'd be in an Air bnb for about a month. But our first purchase fell through due to the prat at the top of the chain dicking about. We had to find another property sharpish.
It took six months, three different Air bnbs and 10 days in a hotel before we got into our new house. Oh, and six month's storage fees for our furniture at over a grand a month. We thought we'd be saving ourselves hassle and stress even though we knew we'd have to pay some rental and storage costs. Just not six month's worth. Never again.

YABU.

I had a couple of (inherited) antique chandeliers in a house I sold once. The bloody cheeky would- be buyers tried to argue they were a fixture. No effing way, mate.

Shutters are like curtains. Not a fixture. I’d you want them, pay for them.

They are actually moving to a house which is on the same road we're on now - our agent has sold all 3 properties and mentioned it to us in a 'what a coincidence' kind of way.

We had this with a seller who took the back gate, as well as all the light bulbs and gas fires. His father came back for some bits of plastic he had left on a window sill (just like the film 'The Chain' ). We went through the small claims court, but he was very adept at pulling the wool over their eyes but we did get our court fees back.

It was just after the deregulation of the credit industry so he was buying stuff and not paying for it all over. We told the bailiffs who were after him where he moved to, and he moved on pretty rapidly.🤷‍♀️

We did this but with curtains so not really the same. We had a load of expensive curtains, they did fit the new house but I wanted new ones. We sold them to the new owners but it was more a case of doing them a favour, was only a couple of hundred and they were very appreciative. Sounds like these guys want to squeeze as much out of you as possible.