Seller trying to charge £'000s on top for existing fitted window shutters!

[MrsKT123]

We're buying a house and have had the fixtures and fittings report back and our seller has noted that the fitted window shutters are not included and would be an extra few thousand £s if we'd like them to stay! (Don't want to give exact amount in case they're on here!)

We're already paying considerably over asking price, had no quibbles on around £5ks worth of work required noted on our survey and have said we're happy to exchange and complete in order with their timescale (they have asked for an extended period between exchange and completion). We love the house and just want things to go smoothly.

I'm really disappointed by this as I would not have expected them to be taking these as they're made-to-measure and I know the house they are buying and there's no way they'd fit. To me, it's like taking the kitchen cupboards or built in wardrobes with them.

Surely it's more hassle to them to get them removed and put good the decoration for all windows in the house (large 5-bed with some bay windows)?

YABU - you shouldn't expect fitted window shutters to be included
YANBU - of course fitted window shutters should be included

I think things do need to change in England- like the whole gazumping crap but I'm glad we have chains. I really would not want to shove everything in storage, find somewhere to rent, then be in a contract for 6 months to then give notice to move. Maybe those in Australia have bigger houses and can easily move in with family but not sure my family moving into a 2 bedroom terrace would work 🤷🏼‍♀️. I'll keep the chains!

@DPotter

call their bluff and say no thanks - will cost them more to have them removed and the walls and frames made good and re-decorated.

I would class them as a fixture and fitting, just like a staircase balustrade or a fitted wardrobe

This ^

Tell them you won’t be purchasing the window shutters, you consider them a fixture, but should they be removed they will have to make good to your satisfaction. I am pretty sure, they are being petty and trying to get more cash and will leave them

The other alternative would be to ask for a reduction in price as you thought they were included and you would need to purchase replacements.

These sort of things are annoying, but if you really want the house sometimes you just have to suck it up.

The property before last that we bought, decided they were taking the shed it had been there quite some years and was included in the property details etc. Adamant that they were taking it. By the looks of the mess left behind it probably fell to bits 🤞but we really wanted the house and it wasn’t worth losing it over a dilapidated shed.

In the UK we don't use bridging loans so all the transactions have to back to back - meaning everyone has to be ready to go on the same day.
We also don't have a sellers pack containing the searches or title deeds. These are done by the buyer once draft contracts are sent out by the vendor's solicitor.

Title searches are complicated by land ownership structures dating back to Henry VIII and his need for money to fund his lifestyle. Prior to that all land was owned by the Crown or church. H8 sold on a mostly leasehold basis some of his crown land to his Barons... creating "shires" which to this day remain as leasehold land. Some of that land was also sold on a freehold basis - this led to manorial rights, where the surface was sold but not the land underneath ( foundations weren't a thing then).

On top of that there are really complex laws surrounding covenants which are personal or run with the land that need to be unpicked. Some can be safely ignored like parking your steam engine in the street outside, or hanging your washing out on a Sunday. Others like paying 30% uplift to to the original vendor or successors in title need a harder look at.

Then there are all the Rights of Way (footpaths, bridleways, permissive, adverse and inferred are the most common). Easements, mining rights by statutory bodies.

Also there are the planning issues to work through - s106, masterplans ( you don't want to buy a property to find HS2 is running through your living room) et al.

Finally - if you are buying a property that has not been sold since 1985 it may not be registered so the vendor has to prove good title.

It's a fixture surely?! We have window shutters and it would make a real mess to remove them - plus as others say they won't fit the other end (they'd probably only be good for landfill). I'd refuse this.

I agree with you OP, it's money-grabbing. I'd definitely push back.

Next time you offer on a house make it conditional on itemised list of things being included. I will be doing that. When I bought my current house, Seller wanted £300 for an old treehouse at the end of the garden. We just laughed and replied, " no we don't want the tree house, please remove it from the tree and take all the wood with you." Haha. It was only good for firewood.

Different with shutters you actually want, hoe unpleasant.

I do honestly think Sellers should be obliged to provide the list of included fixtures and fittings when they list the house for sale and so you already know what you are offering on. How hard would that be to do? Ridiculous system.

We had this with our sellers. The surveyor report came back with lots needing to be done (pointing etc for talking thousands minimum) and we knew we still wanted the house so didn’t haggle. They showed us around for a second viewing and suggested we pay for the curtains (£100 each set). We hadn’t asked to keep them and I was pretty confused at the request. I just declined the offer so they could take them with them but they didn’t. All very weird.

Sorry some people will use bridging loans but it is really risky.

Coming back to the OP - you are going to have to be really careful if they are going to live up the road.
Presuming that they aren't listed in the particulars and I liked them and was going to keep them I would suck it up (through gritted teeth). If I didn't like them I would say - nah you are OK I was going to change them anyway. Part of me would make sure that I really didn't want them.
If they are listed - then offer a chipped amount as the terms of the contract have changed. If you bought a bag of oranges and green grocer took one out you would not expect to pay for all of them.

Call their bluff and counter offer.

As much as I think the English system needs reform, I'm not at all attracted to the idea of putting stuff in storage, finding a rental house (that will accept my animals and be close enough to school and work) and living there for however long it takes before moving again. The costs of doing that could easily match the losses of a sale falling through.

We have shutters, they would be included in the sale.

Are they described in the EA blurb ? ‘Reception room with bay window with shutters..’ for e.g?

In which case I would say ‘they were included in the property description so we assumed included. If you intend to remove them we would need to reduce our offer. If you do remove them please ensure that the walls / window frames are made good and redecorated, thank you!’

call their bluff and say no thanks - will cost them more to have them removed and the walls and frames made good and re-decorated..

Yep, this. Say no thanks and I'm sure they will backtrack, especially if they're made to measure.

Say no but expect them to removed and thrown by sellers...my parents sellers wanted £££ for the stair carpet which was worn and had had. Dog on and they were moving to a flat. Parents said no as they were going to replace the carpets in a few years...the carpets were removed and thrown by seller...my parents just had no stair carpet for two years. They never regretted saying no as carpet wasn't worth it. Just an example of what can happen x

@HoppingPavlova

Yes, chains are almost unavoidable. How does this not happen in Australia? Is property so cheap that everyone can afford to own more than one house?

No, certain parts of Australia (the most populated) rival most expensive cities in the world and cash buyers are extremely rare, but we don’t have the chains everyone goes on about in many places in the UK.

Generally, most people have a gap between houses - so you sell, get the $$, have the agreement with the bank in principle for the next property, then put your furniture in storage and literally live out of a few washing baskets and toiletry bags until you find you next house. You live out of your friends garage, your parents spare room or you do a short term rental using bean bags on floor etc. Because our selling/buying doesn’t take months like yours and drag on endlessly because of odd things and chains it’s really just a very short term pain/inconvenience in the scheme of things, typically a few weeks. It’s also good in that you don’t feel pressured to ‘find something’ in a short time while selling/buying (as our times are short), it gives breathing room to find something you actually want rather than settling for something due to timeframe. If the market is such that the type of thing you are after is in short supply you just resign yourself to a longer rental term while looking and would then get a larger rental where you can have your furniture with you rather than keeping the majority in storage.

We always rented up front when deciding to sell, especially when kids were young. No way I was keeping a house clean with little yoghurty hands etc while buyers were coming through so it was just less stressful. Move, rent, sell, look around for something suitable, but, move in, end lease. That’s quite rare and we had the $$ to do this to save sanity but typically people just suffer while selling and then for the few weeks gap between buying and new house being settled.

Wow, that sounds a nightmare if you’re a family with children at school. We did that before we bought our first house, pre children, and it was stressful enough then with putting our stuff in storage and we had to move to a random area that we didn’t know. Many people here don’t live close to family at all - we’re hours away from ours.

In the area we live there aren’t many places for rent or sale so you could sell and not have a suitable house come up for a year; I wouldn’t sell unless there were at least a couple of houses on the market that we were interested in.

As for the original OP, I wouldn’t really see blinds as something that would be left as they’re easily removed. We prefer curtains so we wouldn’t want them to be left in a house we were buying anyway.

Also with the cost of living here, no way could we rent in advance and pay the mortgage at the same time!

I'd say no but as PP said, be very clear that if they are going to remove them you will expect them to make good any damage.

We have fitted plantation blinds and it wouldn't have occurred to me that they wouldn't included as part of the house when we eventually sell it. Like many other improvements we have carried out over the years improving the saleability of the property factored into the decision making process when we had them installed.

Beware though - my parents had a similar issue when they bought their last house. The vendors wanted silly money to leave their fitted carpets. Mum and Dad refused to pay thinking they were overpriced but would do for a while and it would be too much trouble for the vendors to remove them. The day they moved in there were no carpets and a funny smell in the air. On exploring the garden that evening they found the carpets smouldering in a bonfire behind the compost bins!

(Not rtft so sorry if its been answered already, and also sorry for carrying on with US/AUS derail)

In the UK we have pretty hefty fines for paying off your mortgage early. These fines are waived if you're instantaneously porting your mortgage to a new property.

Do you not have early repayment fines in countries where it's normal to sell, pause, then buy?

Short term lets are hard to come by in the UK, but I guess that's a supply and demand issue.

@opalbutterfly

Also with the cost of living here, no way could we rent in advance and pay the mortgage at the same time!

Cost of living in Australia is higher in many areas ( particularly property) I think there has been some confusion re all the countries without "chains" . Obvs it is very possible as I don't think anywhere else does it except Uk. I have only once had a gap between selling and buying a house and lived with my parents for a week, I've never had to rent between houses. I just did simultaneous settlement every other time. Everyone I know has done the same or if they were moving to a different area for a while may have rented to get a feel for the place. It works very well. Seriously don't know of a single person that has had an issue. People are almost always happy to move settlement day to a date that suits both parties.

Not RTFT but absolutely call their bluff, but specify they need to be completely removed and any damage made good. It'll be a complete pain to do and what are they going to do with made to measure shutters that won't fit their new house? Chances are they'll leave them!

I don't know many people that have rented in advance but some people do, like the family that bought my last house as they were knocking it down and rebuilding. They would have to have live somewhere while the built anyway . I think this a random cultural clash thing that I inadvertently started. Sorry for derail OP.

On exploring the garden that evening they found the carpets smouldering in a bonfire behind the compost bins! That is just vindictive behaviour :-(.

On a related note, someone I know moved into a very desirable town house (well over £1million then) about twenty years ago. The sellers had taken out every single light bulb. The move took place in early January so you can imagine it was a challenge being able to see properly even during daylight hours.

Say no thanks and I'm sure they will backtrack, especially if they're made to measure. Is that easy to find out? Yes, much less likely to remove them if they can't easily be used elsewhere.

@marpelier I'm confused, it sounds like a chain then just with tighter rules

@Wafflesnsniffles

Id call their bluff. "Sure, take them but you will of course need to replace them with curtains etc."

Why would they need to replace them with curtains?

@TokyoSushi

Not RTFT but absolutely call their bluff, but specify they need to be completely removed and any damage made good. It'll be a complete pain to do and what are they going to do with made to measure shutters that won't fit their new house? Chances are they'll leave them!

This. I’d be getting them to remove and make good.

Does "simultaneous settlement" mean buying and selling simultaneously on the same day? And picking a moving date that suits all parties- that sounds exactly like what we call a chain.