To distance from friend having MH difficulties.

susannag1978 · 2022-01-14T15:19:23+00:00

I posted a couple of weeks ago about an event I was due to go to where my friend had changed her mind about going and asked me to buy her out of the event. It was largely agreed that I was not being unreasonable and thankfully the event has been cancelled so we are due refunds and nobody is going to lose out. She has bipolar disorder and seems to often want a reaction. We have been good friends for a long time but this is the closest I've been to one of her 'episodes' and normally I would just not hear from her for a while but this time as we are so involved in each others lives there's been quite a lot of drama. I contacted her to explain the event was now cancelled and we would be due refunds and I would transfer the money when it was refunded to my card. She told me that no, she wanted the money immediately and for the sake of a quiet life I transferred it. She then told me that she has noticed that 'a lot' of my friends have blocked her on social media. She works with the public and has met two of my friends as customers and then chose to follow them and other friends of mine on Twitter. Which is fine, I'm happy for them all to chat. She told me she's deleting her account as she's confused and upset by this. I had a look and we seem to have the same amount of mutual friends as we always did. I asked her who she is concerned about and she said 'I'm not telling you as I don't want to get involved in the drama'. I gently explained that I don't know of any reason why but that they do only know of her through me. She said she needs me to confirm I haven't 'badmouthed' her to my friends. I told her that I think very highly of her and haven't done that. She said I would be putting her job at risk as she works with the public. I think she's in a really bad place mentally and we were a great support to each other and our children were close and I get along brilliantly with her DD and DS. At the moment we've left it as I've told her I think highly of her and haven't spoken badly of her to anyone and I'm sorry she's struggling. She hasn't replied. We had a weekend break next month that I found out through a third party she isn't planning on going on (but hasn't told me) and I've quietly had that refunded to myself as it was my treat for her birthday. I want to be supportive and I miss her and her children but its at the stage that I feel sick when I see her typing on WhatsApp.

adriftabroad · 14/01/2022 15:24

It sounds like she doesn't trust you one bit.

Original poster

susannag1978 · 14/01/2022 15:25

@adriftabroad

It sounds like she doesn't trust you one bit.

She gets deeply paranoid when she's unwell.

OP posts:

MichelleScarn · 14/01/2022 15:44

@adriftabroad

It sounds like she doesn't trust you one bit.

That was your take from ops post?

Op I do think you need to step back a bit from her, and any feelings of guilt that you have. I think you'll end up getting stuck in a viscious cycle, with things just getting more stressful for both of you?

Tal45 · 14/01/2022 15:54

I also thought it was clear she didn't trust you - ie wanting the money immediately, thinking you'd bad mouthed her. But as you say it's her illness making her paranoid. I think I would take a step back so that she doesn't have to see you when she's having an episode. So keep everything casual and don't make any fixed plans with her and get a present for her birthday rather than an outing.

Original poster

susannag1978 · 14/01/2022 15:55

Yes that's what I think. Part of me wants to message about the trip next month and say I think a bit of space would be good for us and I've not lost out financially and we can put a pin in it until she feels a bit better. I know if someone was taking me on an all expenses paid weekend break and I wasn't going to go I'd have sleepness nights thinking about telling them.

But also I can't predict her mood swings and I don't know what her response to this will be.

We had a very close and very trusting relationship. She knows me well as a person and knows its not in my nature to 'badmouth' someone. Yes, I have posted the situation on here and asked a couple of friends for advice regarding the money issues as its been causing me upset but I've always reiterated that she's not herself just now. And they don't even know her.

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Ohfortheloveofgodwhatnow · 14/01/2022 15:56

Yes I think a little space between you may help. When her MH is ok, would she be spoiling for a row then? In other words, is this just the way she is? If this is a result of her struggling, I’d cut her a bit of slack. If this is just how she is, I’d distance.

Original poster

susannag1978 · 14/01/2022 15:57

@Ohfortheloveofgodwhatnow

Yes I think a little space between you may help. When her MH is ok, would she be spoiling for a row then? In other words, is this just the way she is? If this is a result of her struggling, I’d cut her a bit of slack. If this is just how she is, I’d distance.

No not at all, she's a gentle soul who hates confrontation.

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Zombiemum1946 · 14/01/2022 15:57

My sil would do this when she was off her meds. We had contact with the cpn who would check in on her till she was stable again. Some charities provide info and support for family and friends. We had to cut her off a few times because of some serious behaviour and accusations. She's better now and knows the boundaries. It's difficult but we had to protect ourselves. She devastated her mothers and kids lives. The cpn told us to try and keep in mind the illness, but it didn't mean she could abdicate responsibility for her actions.

Original poster

susannag1978 · 14/01/2022 16:02

@Zombiemum1946

My sil would do this when she was off her meds. We had contact with the cpn who would check in on her till she was stable again. Some charities provide info and support for family and friends. We had to cut her off a few times because of some serious behaviour and accusations. She's better now and knows the boundaries. It's difficult but we had to protect ourselves. She devastated her mothers and kids lives. The cpn told us to try and keep in mind the illness, but it didn't mean she could abdicate responsibility for her actions.

Was this with bipolar disorder too? She is on her meds and wouldn't go off them as she is a (recently) single parent who knows she cannot care for her children without her meds. I know some of her symptoms are a lack of self awareness and brain fog so I think she's not entirely aware of her behaviour just now.

If we could have an in person conversation (which she won't agree to) I would ask what she thinks I could be badmouthing her about, ie does she think she's done anything 'wrong'. But I know if I ask over text she'll just blank it.

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suggestionsplease1 · 14/01/2022 16:17

It sounds like you're doing all you can. You're offering appropriate reassurance whilst maintaining boundaries. I would let her know that you've cancelled the trip for the time being and hope to do it in the future when it is a better time.

(I think you should do this directly as you don't don't want communications/ understandings to get lost in translation through third parties.)

Many on bipolar meds can be tempted to play around with medication as it can feel better, temporarily at least, to stop taking some or all of them. So that may be something that is happening.

Zombiemum1946 · 14/01/2022 16:43

@susannag1978
With sil it was a combination of coming off meds despite knowing she needed to be on them because the side effects were difficult to deal with and then drinking/ binging on pain/sleeping pills to deal with the bipolar. The initial really bad episode was made worse by the split from her partner and her not realising how sick she was. Her mother also wouldn't accept it. She would think she was feeling better so come off the meds especially the anti psychotic. Eventually they managed to find the right combination of drugs but they needed adjusting every now and then. She still has spells of not being well that include paranoia and falling out with friends because of it. I would like to be able to say it will resolve and never get difficult again, but this is a part of her. In every other respect she's a lovely woman, but we have to put ourselves first. We give her space to get better till she feels she can trust us again. I suspect your friend's stress of splitting from her partner has pushed her into this state. I would hope she'd able to get cpn support. We got social services to support sil getting the kids to school. They then supported us when the kids came to us for a while. Its difficult to navigate at first, but you get to know the signs that she's becoming unwell, and help her to head off a bad episode.

Zombiemum1946 · 14/01/2022 16:57

@susannag1978
Basically you're doing the right thing. Have contact but stop when she oversteps. If she doesn't want to speak to you then leave her for a while. We found there was nothing else we could do till sil calmed down.

Original poster

susannag1978 · 14/01/2022 17:08

This is all really solid advice- thank you.

I very much feel on eggshells and I miss the sort of friendship of 'DS did something daft today' or 'got a new dress, what do you think?' back and forth. You've reinforced that I've done things right by sending a kind a gentle reassuring message addressing what is upsetting her.

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Trippingslippingx1 · 14/01/2022 20:29

Mental illness is so sad and I have had to step back from others too to protect my own energy.

One girl imparticular - I muted her on whatsapp which helped with boundaries.

All you can do is be as supportive as you can; bipolar is really tough, and it sounds like you have been. Also CPN advice that it does not absolve from her behaviour is spot on but do have compassion that it can cause people to do some very odd things.

Paranoid people are exhausting to try to de escalate as their thoughts are on loop and their amygdala is firing. Sometimes phrases such as ‘all thoughts are not facts’ and reminding herself of the reality of the current situation is helpful. We have all been there ruminating when a friend has been a shit, or man has done us dirty and it usually processes in a few days / weeks as things pass. People with bipolar are not like that and their chemicals fall off for as long as the illness allows.

Trippingslippingx1 · 14/01/2022 20:30

[quote Zombiemum1946]@susannag1978
Basically you're doing the right thing. Have contact but stop when she oversteps. If she doesn't want to speak to you then leave her for a while. We found there was nothing else we could do till sil calmed down.[/quote]
This is great advice.

Original poster

susannag1978 · 15/01/2022 14:33

@Trippingslippingx1

Mental illness is so sad and I have had to step back from others too to protect my own energy.

One girl imparticular - I muted her on whatsapp which helped with boundaries.

All you can do is be as supportive as you can; bipolar is really tough, and it sounds like you have been. Also CPN advice that it does not absolve from her behaviour is spot on but do have compassion that it can cause people to do some very odd things.

Paranoid people are exhausting to try to de escalate as their thoughts are on loop and their amygdala is firing. Sometimes phrases such as ‘all thoughts are not facts’ and reminding herself of the reality of the current situation is helpful. We have all been there ruminating when a friend has been a shit, or man has done us dirty and it usually processes in a few days / weeks as things pass. People with bipolar are not like that and their chemicals fall off for as long as the illness allows.

I have archieved our WhatsApp chat so I don't get message previews. If I see I have a notification I can wait until I feel ready to open it rather than have a message unexpectedly ruin my day. It means I'm not responding as quickly so hopefully things are a bit less heated.

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phishy · 15/01/2022 14:49

You’re placing her mental health above your own. It’s good you’ve archived the chat.

I wouldn’t be making any plans with her or contacting her. Let her contact you when she’s in a bad place.

Don’t pay for anything again, it just gives her more ammunition.

phishy · 15/01/2022 14:50

*in a good place

Thelnebriati · 15/01/2022 14:54

If we could have an in person conversation (which she won't agree to) I would ask what she thinks I could be badmouthing her about, ie does she think she's done anything 'wrong'.

Instead of challenging the specific instance, can you give her a heads up that her thinking appears to be disordered? Is she keeping track of her moods?
I have BPD and use charts to monitor moods and behaviours. I also use a buddy system so my carer gives me a heads up if they notice any specific behaviours;

preview.redd.it/c0v1cv9crcc51.jpg?auto=webp&s=f146b0a56b933d27709ba9ffa4f32d8959c1400d

www.michaelbarbermd.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/BipolarMoodChart.143191138.pdf

Original poster

susannag1978 · 15/01/2022 14:59

[quote Thelnebriati]If we could have an in person conversation (which she won't agree to) I would ask what she thinks I could be badmouthing her about, ie does she think she's done anything 'wrong'.

Instead of challenging the specific instance, can you give her a heads up that her thinking appears to be disordered? Is she keeping track of her moods?
I have BPD and use charts to monitor moods and behaviours. I also use a buddy system so my carer gives me a heads up if they notice any specific behaviours;

preview.redd.it/c0v1cv9crcc51.jpg?auto=webp&s=f146b0a56b933d27709ba9ffa4f32d8959c1400d

www.michaelbarbermd.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/BipolarMoodChart.143191138.pdf[/quote]
She doesn't have a mood tracker as far as I know.

I definitely don't want to be seen as 'challenging' her because I know she'll be on the defensive. I have said before that her narrative seems to be mixed. She told me that she didn't think I was liking her business Instagram posts enough (I liked them every time they popped up on my screen) and that I was a 'shit friend' because of this. I explained I don't see every post but pointed out that I do like and share her posts often and have sent a lot of business her way. But she seems completely closed off to input once she has an idea in her head.

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Original poster

susannag1978 · 15/01/2022 15:02

From just glancing at that mood chart I can identify her problem areas from what she's told me. She sets her own work hours and is able to function enough to get to work but on her days off she can't leave her bedroom. Her paranoia and anxiety is high at all times lately, she's very insecure about her job and very paranoid about social media and peoples' activity on there.

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coffeeisthebest · 15/01/2022 15:11

You have said that she is a sensitive soul and doesn't like confrontation and yet she appears to be able to say whatever she likes to you and you take it from what you have written here. Mental illness is a difficult component, but if you took away her diagnosis out of the equation could you allow for the fact that she is mean and unkind to you and you just accept it without authentic response? I have bipolar in my family so I am not belittling the diagnosis but I will not accept abuse. I also had a friend like yours who was a gentle flower when she wanted to be but could also be a total bitch and would never look at herself for one second. Step back and look at what you are doing.

IncompleteSenten · 15/01/2022 15:13

Walk away.

Original poster

susannag1978 · 15/01/2022 15:30

@coffeeisthebest

You have said that she is a sensitive soul and doesn't like confrontation and yet she appears to be able to say whatever she likes to you and you take it from what you have written here. Mental illness is a difficult component, but if you took away her diagnosis out of the equation could you allow for the fact that she is mean and unkind to you and you just accept it without authentic response? I have bipolar in my family so I am not belittling the diagnosis but I will not accept abuse. I also had a friend like yours who was a gentle flower when she wanted to be but could also be a total bitch and would never look at herself for one second. Step back and look at what you are doing.

I've known her for several years now and she's always been gentle and kind. Her behaviour over the last few months is not her usual personality, at all. I don't believe she's suddenly switched to a bad person, I think she's unwell.

I wouldn't take this kind of abuse and treatment from anyone else but when I know how kind and decent she has been to me in the past I just can't walk away when I suspect she's behaving like this because she's suffering.

I have been a complete doormat in most of this scenario, I know that. I'm making the conscious decision now that I have sorted out all of the plans we had that cost money have been resolved, I am keeping her chat muted and only looking at it when I feel able. I am by no means closing the door or turning my back on her. I'm just having a bit of a breather.

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Thelnebriati · 15/01/2022 15:31

I agree that you aren't the right person to 'challenge' her and at this stage its best to distance yourself.
Whatever the outcome here isn't your responsibility, she sounds unwell.