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Original poster

Holiday booked, can't book leave

231 replies

ColletteTheLot · 14/01/2022 09:55

In the past year I have gone part time in a job I was previously full time in, and work Monday - Wednesday. I am studying on Thursdays and Fridays.

Last week, our manager sent an email on Wednesday evening, after I had finished work, asking for all leave requests from 1st April to 1st September, and that these would be dealt with on a first come / first served basis. As I wasn't then at work till Monday morning, I didn't email my requests till Monday afternoon (I had to check with my husband for some of it, as we try and cover as much school holiday child care as we can between us).

We had a week away in Spain booked for summer 2020 which we moved to 2021, and then had to move again to 2022. It's paid for, and we have insurance that covers Covid.

Turns out, a colleague has requested the week the holiday has been moved to. It is in my calendar, and had been mentioned to my manager, but I hadn't formerly requested it as leave year doesn't start till 1st April.

OP posts:
Oblomov22 · 14/01/2022 15:44

I don't Understand all the previous posts. of course it is unreasonable.
You are disadvantaged by working part time. Manager sent email after you finished work, and you replied on Monday. Manager needs to investigate and give you the correct opportunities.

thing47 · 14/01/2022 15:51

Not only is it mean, but it is likely to fall foul of the law stating that part-time workers cannot be treated less favourably than full-time workers in such matters. This may not have been the intention, but it was the effect caused by the timing of the holiday booking system.

I would put in back on your manager by pointing out that you had already told her, and you expect it to be honoured as you put in a formal request as soon as you were able to do so.

You need to be quite forceful here, OP. Your manager just repeating 'first come, first served' isn't going to cut it as it disadvantages you, potentially illegally.

IntermittentParps · 14/01/2022 16:36

@JustJustWhy

I have my work emails on my phone and always check them outside my normal working hours. My choice, I know, but I don't miss things like this and it only takes a few seconds.
But it's not OK that checking work emails outside normal working hours is the only way not to be disadvantaged. The employer needs to take some responsibility and manage staff patterns of work properly.
FredBair · 14/01/2022 16:42

I would never book a holiday until I had confirmation that I was allowed annual leave. So IMO the timing of the email is irrelevant.

SavageTomato · 14/01/2022 16:44

Your manager sounds a complete dick. She's basically tried to palm off any responsibility for balancing the needs of all staff for leave that fits for everyone. And you've described her style as 'computer says no' rather than acting as a human with other humans. First come, first served is not appropriate for this kind of task, ever, plus the email going out when you were off for 5 days. I'm sensing a deliberate tactic here, does she favour others who then got in with their leave before you were back on the Monday? Or does she just not care about the team and looking after everyone fairly? Either way, dick move.

I've actually been on the cusp of leaving a job over a similar issue. Three of us had to cover the office, this was really important, with only one able to be on leave at any one time, even for a day. We all knew to check booking leave with the other two beforehand. But one sly colleague just went ahead and booked for a week in the summer when she fucking knew I might be needing to book that time, we'd talked about it at length, she totally did that behind my back. As it turned out, my leave needed to be the following week, for the specific event I was going to. So I didn't quit, but I was ready to as it was so disrespectful. Good job the manager never found out, would have been really awkward, but not for me.

Give them hell OP, go to HR if you have it, with all the discriminatory advice others have given, that's valid, or any other nuclear option, including leaving. Do you really want to work for that manager if she's that shit? Do they want fast turnover of staff over such a basic management function? Pathetic or nasty, she sounds like a fucking nightmare!

JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/01/2022 17:07

@JustJustWhy

I have my work emails on my phone and always check them outside my normal working hours. My choice, I know, but I don't miss things like this and it only takes a few seconds.
I agree. But I also think the manager is being super-unreasonable.

OP go to HR.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/01/2022 17:08

@FredBair

I would never book a holiday until I had confirmation that I was allowed annual leave. So IMO the timing of the email is irrelevant.
FGS the OP has said it is a deferred trip due to covid!
JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/01/2022 17:09

Also mention the fact that your colleague hasn't actually booked anything yet so does not "nee" that week, you do.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/01/2022 17:09

need

IWentAwayIStayedAway · 14/01/2022 17:14

Hand in notice month before holiday. Feck that sort of shit. You'll either get tupe of work you're looking to move into or temp for a while. You wont be stuck.

HelloFrostyMorning · 14/01/2022 18:38

@IWentAwayIStayedAway

Hand in notice month before holiday. Feck that sort of shit. You'll either get tupe of work you're looking to move into or temp for a while. You wont be stuck.
Are you seriously advising the OP to give up her job with nothing to come back to when she gets back off her holiday? Confused

@ColletteTheLot PLEASE ignore this advice! Do NOT give up your job, with no job to go to!

Aussiegirl123456 · 14/01/2022 21:31

@IWentAwayIStayedAway

Hand in notice month before holiday. Feck that sort of shit. You'll either get tupe of work you're looking to move into or temp for a while. You wont be stuck.
This is what I’d probably do in this situation to be perfectly honest. Especially as OP is looking at going back into academia, this could be the drive that helps. I wouldn’t want to work for a company like this.
timeisnotaline · 15/01/2022 00:06

@FredBair

I would never book a holiday until I had confirmation that I was allowed annual leave. So IMO the timing of the email is irrelevant.
I don’t think you’ve read the thread.
timeisnotaline · 15/01/2022 00:10

@ColletteTheLot

To cover questions:

Yes, I've spoken to my manager, but she just said "sorry, colleague got in first".

I've worked for the team for 6 years, and she has been my manager for 2 years. When the holiday was cancelled last year, and I cancelled my leave (in line with requests for staff to take minimal leave last year) I told her I had moved it to next year and the dates, but only told her verbally, so don't have it in writing. It hasn't been a problem previously, and her policy of only one of us being off at once is new in last 2 months.

We are a team of 5. Due to the previous 2 years we all have A LOT of annual leave to take as we have been unable to take it due to Covid stuff.

The colleague also has children. One primary, one nursery. My children are high school age. We can't afford to move the holiday later in the summer holiday as the price rises dramatically in mid August.

Manager is known for being very unflexible and if something is "at managers discretion" they will always go with no! There have been recent issues with her refusing compassionate leave when a relative of a colleague died.

HR time OP: your manager has deliberately made multiple recent changes in approach that combined specifically discriminates against part time people. Even in ordinary times why would anyone work part time there if they are a second class citizen for booking holidays? And here they knew that you had delayed holidays to support them and these were rebookings of missed holidays. Don’t let them get away with that.
amusedbush · 15/01/2022 11:54

@FredBair

I would never book a holiday until I had confirmation that I was allowed annual leave. So IMO the timing of the email is irrelevant.
RTFT.
NYnewstart · 15/01/2022 12:10

As a pp said. Be a polite thorn in her side.

I was in a similar situation once. I said I’d hand my notice in, the manager said he wouldn’t be blackmailed. I said I wasn’t trying to do that, it was just what would happen. I got the leave.

But I was actually prepared to leave.

welshladywhois40 · 15/01/2022 12:17

This is unfair on you and you need to approach your HR department. I work in a small team and organise the summer holiday time off and it is not first come first served.

We all put our requests in and work it out as a team.

Spotsmum · 15/01/2022 17:45

Everyone screaming about part time workers being discriminated against - what the hell do you expect the manager to do? Part time workers are off at all stages during the week! No matter what day the manager announced the holidays being open, SOMEONE would have been off - part time, sick, on holiday.

Spotsmum · 15/01/2022 17:46

And first come first served is better than discriminating against someone who doesn't have children and so is denied the summer holidays off, or a young person denied in favour of an older person. There is no less discriminatory way than first come, first served.

PeachyPeachTrees · 15/01/2022 17:55

Usually I'd say first come first served and you were second, sorry.
But...in your case I feel that as your holiday was moved twice due to covid and therefore you couldn't avoid the fact it was booked before requesting leave, this is different matter. Also, telling everyone on a day you're not in is giving unfair advantage to the full time staff and so you should bring up with HR, especially considering the recent rule change about only 1 off on holiday at a time. Paying out an extra £1250 is loads.

Mollymoostoo · 15/01/2022 18:01

@ColletteTheLot

To cover questions:

Yes, I've spoken to my manager, but she just said "sorry, colleague got in first".

I've worked for the team for 6 years, and she has been my manager for 2 years. When the holiday was cancelled last year, and I cancelled my leave (in line with requests for staff to take minimal leave last year) I told her I had moved it to next year and the dates, but only told her verbally, so don't have it in writing. It hasn't been a problem previously, and her policy of only one of us being off at once is new in last 2 months.

We are a team of 5. Due to the previous 2 years we all have A LOT of annual leave to take as we have been unable to take it due to Covid stuff.

The colleague also has children. One primary, one nursery. My children are high school age. We can't afford to move the holiday later in the summer holiday as the price rises dramatically in mid August.

Manager is known for being very unflexible and if something is "at managers discretion" they will always go with no! There have been recent issues with her refusing compassionate leave when a relative of a colleague died.

Tell them you will be speaking to your union as the email was sent out when the manager knew you were out of the office and so disadvantaged you.

Although, I'm not sure why you needed to consult your husband if you knew the holiday dates already.

Kshhuxnxk · 15/01/2022 18:16

Sorry but it should be first come first served and you shouldn't have booked other dates without having them formally agreed.

NoSquirrels · 15/01/2022 18:16

@Spotsmum

Everyone screaming about part time workers being discriminated against - what the hell do you expect the manager to do? Part time workers are off at all stages during the week! No matter what day the manager announced the holidays being open, SOMEONE would have been off - part time, sick, on holiday.
Use your brain! If the manager says on a Weds evening holiday requests must be in by the following Monday morning and it’s first come first served that effectively ensures people off on Thursday & Friday will be at the end of the first come first served queue through no fault of their own.

If, instead, the manager says on a Weds evening holiday requests must be in by 2 weeks from now on X date/the end of the month, and all requests will then be considered together and holidays allocated by Y date then it gives everyone the same chance and allows the manager to see clashes and staffing gaps, and discuss with the relevant parties.

Gilly12345 · 15/01/2022 18:22

My company always states book your time off work before you book a holiday.

We have the system first to ask gets first choice.

You may have to ask for unpaid leave or if not reschedule the holiday.

Closebrackets · 15/01/2022 18:23

YANBU, it's crap being part time for several reasons, one of which is rubbish like this. Your manager should have considered the fact that when they sent the email you wouldn't see it until the day of the 'deadline' and that you'd miss the chance to be fairly considered due to the highly irritating and unfair first come first served process. It is discrimation and I would take it further, speak to them and escalate if necessary. Its not even about getting this particular set of leave imo, it's about the fact that you should not be disadvantaged by working part time, and you have been.