Holiday booked, can't book leave

[ColletteTheLot]

In the past year I have gone part time in a job I was previously full time in, and work Monday - Wednesday. I am studying on Thursdays and Fridays.

Last week, our manager sent an email on Wednesday evening, after I had finished work, asking for all leave requests from 1st April to 1st September, and that these would be dealt with on a first come / first served basis. As I wasn't then at work till Monday morning, I didn't email my requests till Monday afternoon (I had to check with my husband for some of it, as we try and cover as much school holiday child care as we can between us).

We had a week away in Spain booked for summer 2020 which we moved to 2021, and then had to move again to 2022. It's paid for, and we have insurance that covers Covid.

Turns out, a colleague has requested the week the holiday has been moved to. It is in my calendar, and had been mentioned to my manager, but I hadn't formerly requested it as leave year doesn't start till 1st April.

OP that sounds really unfair to me. You need to speak to your manager and state that you have been treated unfairly. If it's such a small team the process for allocating can easily be sorted.

But honestly the lack of reading/comprehension skills of some of the posters on here

As a last resort, offer the colleague £250 to cancel their leave?

I think your colleague is being an arse as he hasn't booked anything yet.

I will also say that, ideal world, I won't be in this job then. But as the work I am hoping I will be doing is academia based, and subject to successful funding applications, I'm not counting on them being in place by then.

@Lazypuppy

Surely as it was a prebooked holiday, you would have just moved the annual leave request when the dates change. Just because holiday year starts 01-apr doesn't mean you can't put requests in earlier?!

YABU, you should always book the annual leave before booking the actual holiday

Agree with this. As pp said @ColletteTheLot you should never book a holiday before securing the leave first. Like you should never book a holiday before making sure you have enough time on your passport (or before your new passport arrives.)

I hope you get this sorted, and the manager can arrange cover, but I have to say YABU.

I'd be annoyed about this, and agree it's unfair on those who work part time. In any event I think 'first come first served' is a really unfair way to allocate leave - I do a lot of training and I'm often not able to access my emails between 10am - 4pm on training days whereas colleagues would be able to reply in minutes.

For periods of high demand (essentially, school holidays) my workplace asks for all leave requests for that period to be in by X date and if there's a conflict they'll sit down with staff and resolve it fairly - usually this is just Christmas, and it's usually settled by sharing Xmas and New Year, and looking at who had the time off the previous year. If it happened during the summer holidays I imagine manager would try and work out a compromise but given yours is a rescheduled holiday I'd imagine you'd be given priority (particularly if your colleague had first dibs on Christmas).

Personally I'd try and appeal to them on the basis that 'first come first served' isn't fair on part time workers and that they should have given a longer deadline to ensure everyone's requests could be heard fairly.

Yabu dh work you have to book a year in advance waited and went to put the week of our dd birthday in accordance to the rules and someone who had rearranged their holiday got in their first before the date you could put them in despite the rule.

To those who say you shouldn't book a holiday before you have the leave secured, how does that work if your holiday year booking doesn't open until 3 months before the dates you're requesting? This is how it works at my sister's place - should she forever be forced to book last minute holidays because she can't pre-book leave more than three months in advance? It's a real pain for things like weddings but that's what happens with a rota system...

It sounds very unfair. I’d contest it- you had no opportunity. Part time staff do not have to check their email regularly while off in case the company sends our openings for major things like the annual leave bookings on a first come first served basis.

also those saying booking leave... the holiday was booked for a different year entirely which means even though they could have had leave for last year, they wont have leave this year so wouldnt have made a difference

Have you challenged it with your boss? I think that the timing of the email and the fact that you had already mentioned it to them gives you good grounds to argue it.

So you had already mentioned the dates you needed to your manager, but you couldn't formally book it because the annual leave year hadn't started yet.

You were forced to book the holiday before having the annual leave approved because it was rollover from last year. Again, your manager was aware of this.

You weren't there when the email was sent because you weren't in work that day, so couldn't request the dates that the manager already knew you were committed to.

This is something your manager needs to sort out and a situation they've created by dropping various balls at once.

You could offer two solutions.

1. You and your colleague are both off at once and they get a temp in to cover (preferable if you think you might not be there then so will actually not be necessary).

1. They cover your increased costs in changing the holiday dates because of how the situation was unfairly dealt with and it discriminated against you for being part time.

Agreed, this is looking like indirect discrimination on the grounds of sex.

Part time workers are clearly disadvantaged by this policy, and are overwhelmingly more likely to be women. It’s also likely to fall down on the grounds of pregnancy/maternity too, as anyone on mat leave is also placed at a disadvantage.

I don’t think first come first served was fair. There should be a “please all submit by Wednesday and I’ll come back to you when I’ve considered” and then after that it’s FCFS

Explained in the OP! Plenty of companies use an online booking system, and don’t “open” a new year for booking until a certain date.

It’s difficult to do where I work. There is no mechanism for formally recording it in the the “system”.

Off topic a bit but these are either crap systems or they have been implemented in a carp way.
Any proper modern absence system should be easily able to cope with requests in the future, and not subject to someone "turning it on" either.

@Ohdearthatwasntgreatwasit

Agreed, this is looking like indirect discrimination on the grounds of sex.

Part time workers are clearly disadvantaged by this policy, and are overwhelmingly more likely to be women. It’s also likely to fall down on the grounds of pregnancy/maternity too, as anyone on mat leave is also placed at a disadvantage.

^ This

@guardiansofthegalaxychocs

I think there are a few issues here 1) 'releasing' holidays on a set day seems a recipe for distaster. Ours doesn't have a time limit and if it's very far in advance it's up to you and your manager to discuss.

2. Having a first come first served policy clearly also isn't fair. It means one person will get all of what they want and another get none.

3. It's particularly unfair for anyone who might be delayed by being part time, is a carer, is on maternity leave/parental leave etc.

Agree with all of this.

I think it’s particularly unfair, and arguably discriminatory, to send out a “first come first served” request on days some team members don’t work.

In your shoes I would absolutely be contesting.

@ShadowPuppets

To those who say you shouldn't book a holiday before you have the leave secured, how does that work if your holiday year booking doesn't open until 3 months before the dates you're requesting? This is how it works at my sister's place - should she forever be forced to book last minute holidays because she can't pre-book leave more than three months in advance? It's a real pain for things like weddings but that's what happens with a rota system...

Is this McDonalds? My niece worked at McDonalds, (10-12 years ago,) and they were like this. They had a 'request book' where you would request time off, and they would almost always OK it, except most requests for the Christmas and New year period. Like your sister's employer, they also refused to say yes to holiday leave, more than 3 months in advance.

So people would say they have booked their holiday, and paid the deposit etc (for 5 months time say,) and if the manager said 'can't guarantee the leave, as it's more than 3 months away,' they'd say 'well that's up to you to sort out then if you won't say yay or nay now,' and they'd still book it and still go.

If the employer is so twatty, that they refuse to say yes or no to a holiday you want to book for say, just April or May this year, then you book it and take it anyway, because you would have a very good case in a tribunal if they tried to sack you! If they can't be fucked to say yes or no to holiday leave you want for say, just 4 months time, then you book it anyway, and they can deal with the staff shortage at the time! It's their problem and it's a problem of THEIR making.

Also @ShadowPuppets this is irrelevant anyway, because your sister's situation is nothing like the OP's.

I would push back a bit with the manager as this does seem unfair.

How can it be first come first served when some people don't work on the day the email was sent?

Frustrating - if you'd already mentioned it, your manager should really honour it surely?

I'm currently waiting on a leave request I made over a month ago. Org hasn't been arsed to do my probation review either, so only have to give a weeks' notice if they refuse the holiday

I think @BonnesVacances answer is exactly correct.

Technically you did get your request in first as your manager was already aware of the holiday (hopefully you have that in writing somewhere)

Holiday leave years opening on a certain date with first come first served leave requests are a pain in the arse unless it’s the same day every year.

I used to work for a company that opened its holiday diary on the 1st of jan for that year - it was annoying because it meant you were hovering over your email at 5 mins past midnight if you wanted a popular week but it meant we all knew where we stood.

Plus even with that company if you wanted time off in jan for instance you could always book it off before the leave year started - it just couldn’t be formally recorded in the calandar.

Any proper modern absence system should be easily able to cope with requests in the future, and not subject to someone "turning it on" either.

Ours is a recently implemented system from an American company specialising in Human Resources “solutions”. It either can’t do it or has been configured not to do it. I suspect the latter as we couldn’t easily do it with the previous paper based system either.

Were you physically able to book those holiday dates in before this point?
If you were, and you just haven't because you were waiting for them to ask, then it's your own fault.
If you weren't able to, then I would argue the point about the booking system.
If your colleague taking 3 weeks off means that you are not able to take any off in the school holidays, I would argue that time needs to be split between you. I would also put in December/ Christmas now, and if he's booked it again, complain that te split isn't fair.

Before you rush to move the holiday, have you spoken to your manager and explained, reminding them they knew about it?

Completely unfair. YANBU