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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What would happen if this went back to court?

30 replies

HolidayHolidayHereICome · 13/01/2022 21:12

I’ve booked a holiday for DD and I for later this year, it’s in the UK and we’re going with a family member who has a similar aged DC. DDs really excited. Its in the summer holidays so DD will not be missing any school.

I realised after booking it that it clashes with ExHs contact weekend, it was a total oversight. As soon as I realised I emailed him and offered that he take the weekend back whenever he wants apart from two specific weekends this year (when I have booked tickets for DD and I to do things), I even said if he wanted her for a whole 2 days in any school holiday to repay it he could have it.

There is a court order, which gives him 24 hours EOW and 1 extra day over Christmas. That’s it, no other contact at all. Since the order was made in 2018 I’ve cancelled contact twice once when DD had a sickness bug and just wanted to stay home and once when she had chicken pox because Ex-FIL has a compromised immune system and I didn’t want to risk it, both times I offered him extra contact when DD was well again. I have never changed contact at all since and even came back from my holiday early in 2018 with her so she didn’t miss contact while we were going through court (which the judge then told me I shouldn’t of done and that DD was expected to do normal things with both of us).

He’s told me he doesn’t give me permission to take DD on holiday that weekend and that if I insist he will take me back to court over it and “I will win, and maybe get even more time with her”.

We split due to violence and control on his part, he took me to court. And has taken me back once when I applied for schools for DD as he didn’t want her going to the school closest to me – he was told to stop being ridiculous and she ended up at the school closest to my house.

So what’s likely to happen if he does go back to court over it? Will they say I can’t take her away on those dates? Or is it likely they’d say that as I’ve offered the contact back and I don’t make a habit of changing contact. I’m away 6 nights, 7 days, Sat-the following Sunday so it also clashes with my weekend.

OP posts:
HelloDulling · 13/01/2022 21:26

Any chance you can go a different week? If you ring and explain, they might take pity on you.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 13/01/2022 21:31

I dont have any experience of court but I really cant see how stopping her going for the sake of changing weekends around is in her best interests

Chloemol · 13/01/2022 21:33

Tbh not sure, but why not just let her go and you go on holiday after she comes back on the Sunday

Then if he ever asks to swap the answers no

Santaisstilleatingmincepies · 13/01/2022 21:33

Ignore him op. We had a court order. Exh took dc abroad for 3 weeks. Nothing I could do.

AuntyBumBum · 13/01/2022 21:36

The child's welfare is the courts paramount consideration. I'm not a family lawyer, but I can't imagine a judge taking a positive view of a parent making a big song and dance about this, and transparently using the child as a pawn in his game rather than thinking what's best for her (and indeed what she actually wants to do).

Cloudfrost · 13/01/2022 21:43

Unfortunately, it's his weekend and he doesn't have to swap if he doesn't want to. I think it's a bit silly of you to assume that he would be OK with it based on his previous patterns of behaviour. Depending on how you presented this to him, I don't think he would be unreasonable to say no. Ideally, he should be putting your child's best interests ahead of his annoyance with you, but doesn't sound like he is able to.

But I don't know what the court will say

Santaisstilleatingmincepies · 13/01/2022 21:57

How old is dd?

Original poster
HolidayHolidayHereICome · 13/01/2022 22:01

@Santaisstilleatingmincepies

How old is dd?
@Santaisstilleatingmincepies 6
OP posts:
RedCandyApple · 14/01/2022 00:10

Tbf I do think it was a bit off to book it in his contact time especially if he doesn’t see her often and you could book any other time given no school

Mumofsend · 14/01/2022 06:34

If he took it back to court he would get told that there does need to be a small amount of flexibility and that as you have offered to male up the contact then he won't get anywhere at all.

Mumofsend · 14/01/2022 06:35

*make up

Sowhatifiam · 14/01/2022 06:39

If you have a residence order, you can leave the country for up to 28 days without permission of the other parent. A short holiday is absolutely fine. You have given good notice and offered to make up the time. Keep evidence of what you have said and watch a judge tear strips off him,

RedWingBoots · 14/01/2022 06:39

OP it would depend on the judge.

I would just move the holiday as you don't need the stress.

confusionwith · 14/01/2022 06:43

I doubt they'd do anything, as a op said there does have to be abit of flexibility sometimes. I can't see them making your dd miss out on a holiday either. You'd think her dad wouldn't want her to miss out on a nice holiday aswell ?

CucumberCool · 14/01/2022 06:46

If you have residency you can ultimately do what you like for up to 30 days. Double check your court order again.
I would continue to offer two days when you get back in writing, for the courts sake, if he does take you back but It won't look good on him.

We have a court order in place (and have a much more even time split) which has been broken multiple times but always advised by solicitors to let it go as judges do not look kindly on pettiness... They ultimately want you to sort things out yourself and understand not everything runs perfectly to plan.

2DogsOnMySofa · 14/01/2022 07:12

How hard would it be for you to swap? If he was abusive in your marriage, this is probably a power and control play for him and he won't swap now he knows how disruptive it will be for you.

In your shoes I'd reply with 'ok, I'll sort something out so it doesn't affect your contact time'. Then do what you can to rearrange. If you can't just tell him a few days before then he can't do anything about it.

GrendelsGrandma · 14/01/2022 07:29

He's being a twat. But the easiest thing would be to change the dates if your relative can change too, poss a small fee to do so.

If you can't change dates then make sure you have written evidence of your offer for him to have her another time. Then I'd go ahead.

A judge would likely be pissed off with you both for wasting her time being unable to sort this stuff out, if you have written evidence that you tried to find a reasonable solution then that would count in your favour. I very much doubt that ex would actually start proceedings over this, he's just trying to mess with you.

MisgenderedSwan · 14/01/2022 07:33

Can you put in an email to him the dates you are going and your offer to make up contact (including the dates when you have tickets for dd) and then keep a copy of the email and any response he makes to that. You've given plenty of notice and been very reasonable. I can't imagine a judge being very sympathetic to him.

icedancerlenny · 14/01/2022 07:38

They should allow this. In fact you could even apply to the court for permission first. If children have visitation every other weekend, there’s never going to be a possibility for a week’s holiday.

Benjaminsniddlegrass · 14/01/2022 07:51

It is very unlikely a Judge would force a child to miss a holiday when you have clearly offered to make up contact time. Their focus is on the child's best interests and as PP have said would expect some level of flexibility. I think any solicitor he visited would give him the same advice. All that said if you can swop you may feel less stressed but honestly I wouldn't worry unduly.

AFS1 · 14/01/2022 08:12

The PPs advising you that you can do whatever you want for 30 days are giving you completely wrong advice. If there is a “spends time with” child arrangement order in place (what used to be called a contact order) there is an expectation that that order will be complied with. Whilst a “lives with” order allows you to take your child abroad for up to a month without permission from you ExP, that does not give you the right to breach the spend time with order.

Having said that, if he takes it back to court because you’ve asked to vary one weekend it is highly likely the Judge will tell him he’s being completely ridiculous and is wasting precious court time. However, the more concerning threat is him seeking to ask the court for more time with your child. If there’s a risk he will use this missed contact weekend to launch an application for more contact, it might be worth changing your holiday if you can, just to get him off your back.

InAState22 · 14/01/2022 08:25

I've just been through this with completely unreasonable EXH.

Legal advice was that there is no way, either or without a contact order, that the court will prevent a one- week holiday. Solicitor wrote to EXH to request persmission & stating that if he doesn't offer it, we will make an application to court. Permission will be granted and he will be liable for costs - £1500 plus VAT.

Letter from his sol received 3 days later granting permission abs hoping we all have a lovely time.

So yes you can go, but it might cost you £180 or so for a sol letter to get permission.

Justkeeppedaling · 14/01/2022 08:25

I think you were silly to book a hol on one of his weekends.
I'm amazed you could forget to check tbh as it's such a regular occurrence in the household.

Change the holiday, or set off on the Sunday evening.

frazzledasarock · 14/01/2022 08:45

In the years I was constantly dragged to court over every tiny little thing by self representing ex. I discovered that despite common sense and logic, in court you are at the mercy of the whims and moods of the judge you are put in front of that day.

You could get a sensible judge who may tear strips off your ex for being such a time wasting abusive dickhead. you may get a judge who completely sympathises with your ex and refuses to allow you to deviate from your order.
Or you may get a judge who will bollock the both of you for not being able to use common sense and give eachother a bit of leeway.
Or you may get a telling off for ignoring the contact timetable.

Either way, it will be costly, time consuming and stressful, for you.

I'd go with PP's suggestion and try and get your holiday dates changed first.
If not then try and speak to a solicitor.

Whatever you do, keep all evidence of communication over this safe so you can provide proof you were trying to be reaosnable.

Ginger1982 · 14/01/2022 08:52

Can't you just move the date?