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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Guy I'm dating thinks JKR's writing should be boycotted but MJ's music is fine

74 replies

Tavelo · 09/01/2022 23:18

Had a few dates. Alright fellow, easy to talk to, but overall not much chemistry so I don't think it'll be going anywhere anyway, just wanted to hear your views on this.

On these dates, a couple of times the issues relating to transgenderism have come up (brought up by him) and each time he seems to suggest the argument on the side of the (extremist) TRAs, which as I know a few of you here are acquainted with.

JKR did come up and he expressed disapproval. I didn't add much except make it clear that I was somewhat familiar with the whole issue and also that I don't necessarily think JKR has done anything wrong. This didn't really go anywhere. But on the same evening Michael Jackson came up, and after we both acknowledged what happened there, we had a brief conversation on it where we agreed that the art can be separated from the artist, although these things are messy.

It strikes me looking back on the conversation that he has managed to separate the art from the artist for a convicted child abuser but not for someone who has merely annoyed a few people on twitter.

Today, while talking about the Olympics in general, I shared a thought of mine relating to how it's interesting that although the athletes work very hard which is admirable, there is always physical advantage due to the genes of people. I wasn't even thinking about trans issues while saying this, but he added how that is why he thinks there's an argument for allowing trans athletes into the category of the sex they transitioned to. That part of the discussion sort of ended after we agreed there isn't any easy solution to it.

I want to share this because I find it quite disheartening that someone seems to have heard one side of this issue and be very convinced. I imagine it is another example of how almost everyone is quite misogynistic, whether they know it or not.

I'm a very laid back and open minded person but AIBU to not tolerate this nonsense.

OP posts:
CityMumma78 · 10/01/2022 09:25

Wow he seems quite odd, rather peculiar topics to discuss, especially with a female, it’s like he was provoking a reaction!
The whole JKR is a major storm in a tea cup. JKR has shared views that support women, I haven’t seen a shred of evidence that JKR is transphobic! For me we need more JKR’s in this world fighting for our rights (and the rights of our mums, daughters and sisters) so female terminology doesn’t get erased and our safety compromised.
It is still very much a man’s world seeped in misogyny!!

NotBadConsidering · 10/01/2022 09:29

Michael Jackson was never convicted.
Jimmy Savile was never convicted.
Cyril Smith was never convicted.
Multiple Catholic priests were never convicted.

And so on, and so on…

JKR has stood up for women’s rights. It’s pure misogyny to say that what Rowling has allegedly done wrong in the eyes of angry MRAs on Twitter - nothing - is comparative to what Jackson has been accused of, warranting equal punishment of boycotting.

Branleuse · 10/01/2022 09:48

im not particularly interested in most of cancel culture. The more and more I considered it and noting what people were generally being cancelled for, and the amount of "certain" people who were seemingly uncriticisable and the ones that cant even fart wrong before being cancelled, I came to the conclusion that most men are probably awful and a huge amount of people have terrible views on things and I dont really care about agreeing with them.
I think the hypocrisy of your bloke would be what put me off. I dont really care that much about convicting or acquitting Michael Jackson in my head. I just dont care enough because hes dead. Likewise, the whole uproar about JKR. for one she didnt say anything wrong imo, I agreed with pretty much everything she said, but also I dont really care about the views of the actors that are all going TWAW.

Im happy to see rapists and abusers careers going down the pan, but it probably wouldnt stop me watching their previous work

FOJN · 10/01/2022 10:23

He's a misogynist so I wouldn't see him again.

We know JKR isn't transphobic and we know the people who accuse her don't believe she is either because they never directly link to her essay so other people can decide for themselves. Here's a link to the essay, and a quote from it showing her support for TW, for anyone who would like to make up their own minds.

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

I believe the majority of trans-identified people not only pose zero threat to others, but are vulnerable for all the reasons I’ve outlined. Trans people need and deserve protection. Like women, they’re most likely to be killed by sexual partners. Trans women who work in the sex industry, particularly trans women of colour, are at particular risk. Like every other domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor I know, I feel nothing but empathy and solidarity with trans women who’ve been abused by men.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 10/01/2022 10:30

The campaign against JKR has been very effective. All the young (under 20) people I know can reel off a long well-rehearsed list of her "crimes".

ginghamstarfish · 10/01/2022 10:32

Could not be doing with anyone who thinks JKR is a transphobe. I'd dump him, he sounds a bit thick anyway.

SeeMyLanyardAndWeepBitch · 10/01/2022 10:39

Well obviously he's an idiot and you need to dump him. I'm surprised you even needed to ask.

Fimofriend · 10/01/2022 10:42

MJ was NOT acquitted. He paid a huge several mio. dollar settlement out of court and so the victim's family asked for the case to be dropped.

mewkins · 10/01/2022 10:43

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

The campaign against JKR has been very effective. All the young (under 20) people I know can reel off a long well-rehearsed list of her "crimes".
I'd be interested to know what kids actually say about this. I can make no sense of it myself after reading everything I can.
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 10/01/2022 11:16

My DD (14) recently told us of a long list of things that were bad about JKR - they include the lack of diversity in the Barry Trotter books etc etc.
It is all bollocks but it has been extremely effective propaganda.
JKR is definitely being targeted. It's ironic because I actually have no time for her work - not my cup of tea at all - but I can see she is being really unfairly targeted.

DdraigGoch · 10/01/2022 11:18

@BoredtoTiers

A bloke wanging on about transgender issues unprompted (on either side of the argument) in early / casual dating would be a major turn-off for me. Unless he somehow has skin in the game, it seems a really odd thing to bring up multiple times without prompting (but I've been with DH for along time, so perhaps this is normal nowadays).

Anyone with sense knows it's a hot button issue so pretty odd to raise it unless it's something central to you (so be prepared to hear a lot about it) or you're using it to somehow gauge the acceptability of your date's beliefs.

They always used to say that there are three topics off-limits in polite conversation: sex, religion, and politics. This is a bit of all three.
IncompleteSenten · 10/01/2022 11:20

Hmm. It's a mystery isn't it?

Let me think.

MJ was a man

JKR is a woman.

🤔 It's a toughie alright.

Beowulfa · 10/01/2022 11:26

For those who've asked for evidence of Rowling's transphobia, I hope you made a decent packed lunch and have a flask of tea, because you'll be sat here waiting for a looooooong time.

Here is here essay explaining her position on sex-based rights: www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

teawamutu · 10/01/2022 11:29

Ask him the Staniland Question, OP. Will tell you everything you need to know.

KaptainKaveman · 10/01/2022 11:32

AFAIK JK Rowling has never sexually abused children.
The end.

VapeVamp12 · 10/01/2022 12:09

My step sons fiance was talking about JK Rowling yesterday. She referred to some "transphobic" essays that JK had written. I read the one linked above this morning and its so not transphobic I really don't understand where she is coming from now!

I love JKRowling and all of her writing. I hate that people are trying to cancel her.

MorningStarling · 10/01/2022 12:12

Well, he's half right isn't he - Rowling's work should be boycotted (because it's shit), but Wacko Jacko's work should also be boycotted because he abused children.

If you find a man who is right 50% of the time you're onto a winner.

Tavelo · 10/01/2022 12:14

Thanks for your input everyone. As I said I don't think this is going anywhere anyway I think I'm just surprised that he keeps bringing it up and it almost is like he's testing to see if I'm a bigot or not. I am accepting of trans people but I don't think that knowing the difference between sex and gender makes me a bigot and I don't believe that JKR is one either.

OP posts:
Bonheurdupasse · 10/01/2022 12:22

OP

If (hopefully when Grin) you break it off, just do that, don't let yourself drawn out into why, definitely don't mention anything to do with trans issues, JKR , anything.
Otherwise he sounds like he'd harangue and harass you about it even after the break up, just to tell you how wrong you are etc.
If you break it off I guarantee he'll be very insistent that you tell him why.

SolasAnla · 10/01/2022 12:39

@Tavelo

Thanks for your input everyone. As I said I don't think this is going anywhere anyway I think I'm just surprised that he keeps bringing it up and it almost is like he's testing to see if I'm a bigot or not. I am accepting of trans people but I don't think that knowing the difference between sex and gender makes me a bigot and I don't believe that JKR is one either.
Or testing you about your boundaries. You don't want to be intimidated by people who call you names in an attempt to force you to accept their philosophy. Thats an abusive control starting point.

@Bonheurdupasse
Sadly it was his position on CSA and MJ's music that finished off all hope of any long term romance.

DdraigGoch · 10/01/2022 13:32

He really doesn't sound very bright. I wouldn't have the patience.

thankgoodnessnotravel · 10/01/2022 18:50

Former head of education of Stonewall doesn't think JKR should be cancelled.

fb.watch/aseeWoDLqC/

Chloemol · 10/01/2022 19:03

Is MJ a convicted child abuser? Not sure I saw that he had actually been convicted

WandaWomblesaurus73 · 10/01/2022 21:45

He sounds like an ignorant twat. Ask him exactly what JKR has said that is problematic and also tell him to get on his bike. He's no friend to women.

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