To think people are going to have to be inconvenienced to actually stop climate change?

[Confrontayshunme]

A road near our home was closed to create a Low Traffic Neighbourhood during the first lockdown. Children at the local junior and high schools have benefitted hugely in road safety, the cycle and scooter racks were overflowing and the pollution was measured recently as 40% less (in an area with 3 schools).

And yet they reopened the road because enough drivers wanted to save 10 minutes in the morning. The day after it reopened, half of the bikes and scooters were gone due to safety concerns. Even my coworker who said it made her cycle to work easier and safer was hugely relieved that she doesn't have to go an extra 10 minutes out of her way when driving.

Anyway, I just despair for the planet if adults and people riding in heated, air conditioned, comfortable, waterproof music players can't possibly leave the house 10 minutes earlier to allow our community's children just one intersection's worth of safety and convenience. Plus, the level of pollution driving our children all these miles (when they could be exercising or improving their mental health) inside a car shortens their lives so there isn't any time saved overall anyway!

And before the pile on commences, I realise many people are not able to use alternate transport or active travel due to physical disability or huge distances and I wouldn't include them in this.

@Bucanarab

So the most up to date fuel report from the IEA (2020, so much more recent than what you quoted) shows that in fact agriculture does produce more methane than oil and gas. Obviously both are awful, and with all of the other gases produced included then oil and gas do have more impact, but methane is the key. If we reduce our methane emissions now then we will start to see a positive effect very quickly. If we 'just' try to reduce carbon dioxide emissions then we won't see the effects for at least 100 years, which sadly will be far too late.

This is why it baffles me that people are ignoring the easiest way of reducing the problem- not eating meat!

There is terrible traffic in bits of the netherlands so somebody is driving there! But the cycle ways were great.
I dont know what population the uk could sustain eating locally grown vegan food although i am sure more could be done.

Inconveniencing people isn't a good way to stop climate change. We're already facing massive inconvenience and apparently that's still not enough. My view is life is too short to worry about the future. Most of us will be dead long before the worst effects of climate change become apparent.

People can harp on about needing to save the planet but usually they're only concerned with issues that other people need to address. For example other people need to use less energy, but they themselves should be allowed to watch Netflix even though streaming services waste huge amounts of energy in keeping their infrastructure going. You know the fuss people make about switching the TV off at the wall overnight? How do you think on demand video works? It's on demand because it's always on, being used or not.

People are unwilling to face the very obvious problem. If HUMANS are causing climate change then the solution is to eradicate or significantly reduce the number of humans on the planet. If we culled the population down to a billion or so there would be enough resources for us to continue without inconveniencing ourselves terribly or undergoing dramatic lifestyle changes.

Personally I think humans are incredibly arrogant when it comes to climate change. Other species don't give a shit. What makes us so special? Species come and go, as climate changes they adapt or die. Humans shouldn't fight nature. Our nature is to exploit our resources, this has what has led us to be the dominant species in our solar system. We need to follow our nature, we are the most adaptable species going. We shouldn't try to freeze time, which is effectively what climate activists want, under the unbelievably arrogant misunderstanding that people today are somehow "better" than those that have gone before.

That’s actually insane. You don’t have to buy it just because it’s on the shelf. And if you care about the environment you wouldn’t be buying out of season fruit and veg.

But why deny yourself stuff when no-one else around you is denying themselves? You're making no difference and just making life worse for yourself for no real reason.

Everyone else then looks around and thinks exactly the same, which is why saying that this has to be 'consumer-led' or that it's somehow up to all of us to make individual choices will simply not work.

Companies know this - they make token changes that cost them nothing and then say that it's their customers fault for not picking the more expensive green product and so absolve themselves of any blame or responsiblity.

We need to build the actual cost of products into law - the ecological costs, the environmental costs, the labour costs that companies should be paying for rather than exploiting employees overseas.

It won't happen though. It would make the rich poorer and the media (owned by those same people) would wage an information war to convince us that somehow our future still depends on making rich old men (and they are almost all men after all) even richer, when in fact the opposite is true.

@MorningStarling

Inconveniencing people isn't a good way to stop climate change. We're already facing massive inconvenience and apparently that's still not enough. My view is life is too short to worry about the future. Most of us will be dead long before the worst effects of climate change become apparent.

People can harp on about needing to save the planet but usually they're only concerned with issues that other people need to address. For example other people need to use less energy, but they themselves should be allowed to watch Netflix even though streaming services waste huge amounts of energy in keeping their infrastructure going. You know the fuss people make about switching the TV off at the wall overnight? How do you think on demand video works? It's on demand because it's always on, being used or not.

People are unwilling to face the very obvious problem. If HUMANS are causing climate change then the solution is to eradicate or significantly reduce the number of humans on the planet. If we culled the population down to a billion or so there would be enough resources for us to continue without inconveniencing ourselves terribly or undergoing dramatic lifestyle changes.

Personally I think humans are incredibly arrogant when it comes to climate change. Other species don't give a shit. What makes us so special? Species come and go, as climate changes they adapt or die. Humans shouldn't fight nature. Our nature is to exploit our resources, this has what has led us to be the dominant species in our solar system. We need to follow our nature, we are the most adaptable species going. We shouldn't try to freeze time, which is effectively what climate activists want, under the unbelievably arrogant misunderstanding that people today are somehow "better" than those that have gone before.

Terribly short sighted. If you culled the population down to 1 billion how would that work other than going back in time (rather than freezing it)? Would the 1 billion have to decide who were going to be the billionaires, the train drivers, the care home staff? It would not be a utopia.

Leaving aside, of course, the fact that you sound a bit like Hitler.

The UK could be more self sufficient in food but we need to pay farmers to produce, not all livestock with cattle sheep on is suitable for growing crops. There will always be some food imports but we import many things that could be grown in UK mushrooms apples potatoes wheat oats we will never be able to grow pineapples and bananas but we do not need to import pork beef lamb or chicken or apples plums etc
fast fashion produces more emissions than all the aeroplanes and ships in the world

also last year enough food was profduced on earth to feed 11 million people properly ( ie all nutrients and enough calories) not just poverty levels the population is 7 billion this is a combination of food in the wrong place and waste both at shop industry level and household level
food waste should really only be peeling and inedible parts bones coffee grounds used tea etc it should not be loaves and loasves of bread wonky vegetables and salads and half chickens when just breast was eaten

That’s actually insane. You don’t have to buy it just because it’s on the shelf. And if you care about the environment you wouldn’t be buying out of season fruit and veg.

And yet someone will and they do. And really, you need to use it once it's here or the trip made to bring it really was pointless.

Your actions mean nothing. Not buying something because it isn't environmentally friendly is pointless. What you want to be done is to stop these things happening. Blaming the consumer helps and achieves nothing. And saying 'but all of us together will stop it happening' is pointless too, because you will never ever achieve that. It's a dream.

Whilst I agree that better legislation is vital, UK has reduced meat consumption per capita by 17% over the last 10 years, we do have the collective power to do something. Look also at the amount of products without or with reduced plastic.

So many people are saying “this won’t affect me”, “It will be my kids and grandkids who suffer” etc. Utter head in the sand nonsense!

The fact of the matter is that it is happening NOW. Migration, refugees, political instability and authoritarianism crop yields falling, rising food prices, unseasonal weather, out of control fires, hurricanes, floods etc. China is buying up farmland all round the world to hedge against crop failures. It is ramping up and will continue to do so but you will all feel the impact. Some of the more doomy predictions include societal collapse within 20 years. Let’s hope they are wrong but it’s not impossible, covid has shown us how quickly ‘normal’ can change.

Morningstarling, 'we shouldn't fight nature'? So I guess you must be an anti vaxer, or refuse pain relief for child birth

100 companies are responsible for 71% of emissions worldwide. It’s ridiculous to pretend that choosing local potatoes or cycling to work makes a difference.

I' m amazed that people are against schemes like school streets

Alaya, it's not just about saving the planet, less cars on the road makes an area nicer for everyone, especially non car drivers

I wish people would stop blaming “companies” and China in this wide eyed “its nought to do with me guv” way. Who do you think is supplying the demand for the goods provided by these companies?! Us!

@MsTSwift

I wish people would stop blaming “companies” and China in this wide eyed “its nought to do with me guv” way. Who do you think is supplying the demand for the goods provided by these companies?! Us!

Very true.

We drive up the demand for goods, we drive up the demand for holidays, we waste food.

Time to sober up.

The demand for holidays abroad, especially long haul, will be huge this summer after covid. There were so many threads on here last summer with people complaining that they had to holiday in the UK and how awful it was. Expectations are higher, will people give up what has become commonplace?

No, they won't.

But by not giving up something now we all will have to give up everything later.

Well I was one of those moaners. We are getting the train to the sun this year. It’s so wrong that we will be paying more and inconveniencing ourselves to try to do the right thing why the hell is air travel subsidised and rail isn’t?

@MsTSwift

I wish people would stop blaming “companies” and China in this wide eyed “its nought to do with me guv” way. Who do you think is supplying the demand for the goods provided by these companies?! Us!

But what is easier (or to be more accurate, actually possible)? Trying to persuade 7 billion people to go against basic human nature or forcing 100 companies (which as a PP pointed out, are responsible for 71% of emissions) to do the necessary thing for humanity?

But by not giving up something now we all will have to give up everything later

Not everyone, that's the problem. We're not all in it together.

Aviation fuel is not taxed. It's scandalous that air fares are a fraction of rail fares.

How can it be sustainable to fly to Barcelona for £ 21, whereas London St Pancrass/Kings Cross to Luton return is £20?

Not everyone, that's the problem. We're not all in it together.

We are. It's the way of life of the whole human race. if you think you are somehow insulated think again, when droughts and extreme weather hits, crops fail and migration increases many fold. No one will be able to escape it.

What’s so hard is our entire system is based on our consumption so there needs to be massive underlying conceptual change. It’s very difficult We either do it ourselves in a managed way or Mother Nature will just do it for us and for a lot of us (or for our descendants) it really won’t be pretty.

Still you get the “shall I have a third child” threads! Are those people dim or just totally in denial?