To think people are going to have to be inconvenienced to actually stop climate change?

[Confrontayshunme]

A road near our home was closed to create a Low Traffic Neighbourhood during the first lockdown. Children at the local junior and high schools have benefitted hugely in road safety, the cycle and scooter racks were overflowing and the pollution was measured recently as 40% less (in an area with 3 schools).

And yet they reopened the road because enough drivers wanted to save 10 minutes in the morning. The day after it reopened, half of the bikes and scooters were gone due to safety concerns. Even my coworker who said it made her cycle to work easier and safer was hugely relieved that she doesn't have to go an extra 10 minutes out of her way when driving.

Anyway, I just despair for the planet if adults and people riding in heated, air conditioned, comfortable, waterproof music players can't possibly leave the house 10 minutes earlier to allow our community's children just one intersection's worth of safety and convenience. Plus, the level of pollution driving our children all these miles (when they could be exercising or improving their mental health) inside a car shortens their lives so there isn't any time saved overall anyway!

And before the pile on commences, I realise many people are not able to use alternate transport or active travel due to physical disability or huge distances and I wouldn't include them in this.

I am not paying a fucking electric taxi to take me the 100+ mile round trip to Tesco.

@mumda

Have you removed your central heating and stopped eating anything not grown without air miles?

The inconvenience will be huge. Starvation, mass exodus from lands due to flooding fire and pestilence. Followed by wars over water and food.
It will indeed be the end of days.

I don't think people are wrong to carry on and ignore it all.

COP26 is just one in a long list of annoyances where the rich tell the poor how to live but refuse to change their own behaviour.

These kind of comments make people NOT change their behaviour or stand up for what they believe in. No, not many people can eat food solely from the UK because most shops don't sell food from here. No most people don't eat plastic free because same reason. we use plastic loads, despite trying our damn hardest to drop it. Its not my fault or the OPs fault. its the governments fault and they are probably so happy that we are pointing fingers at eachother rather than pointing fingers at them

Fairly sure @Notthemessiah is the messiah as they are speaking pure truth

I find it completely bizarre how posters here are harping on about electric cars, reducing private car ownership etc. Those things are all well and good but if everyone stopped using cars now then we wouldn't see any change in the planet for 100 years.

Reducing our methane output is much more of an immediate priority as it will have a much faster impact and something needs to change now.

In short- we need to stop eating meat. Full stop. Drive an electric car and feel smug about cycling to work all you like- if you eat meat then you're a massive hypocrite.

@ParsleySageRosemary

I do agree, but to be fair, Holland is flatter. Where I live, it's incredibly hilly, and the only cyclists are those sporty endurance types.

That's an endlessly repeated excuse. There are hills across the lowlands (thinking of the Benelux, all of which countries are better at promoting cycling than the UK). There are flat areas across Britain. The flat areas of Britain are not more cycling-friendly than the UK on the whole.

The Netherlands got where they have by having the will to do so, and legislating for it, and doing it bit by bit. It didn't happen overnight. It will never happen here because it will never start. Britain's poverty of mind and culture is disgusting.

It's not an excuse. You can cycle up these hills if you are very fit. That's not everyone. Good public transport is a better solution.

You've only just realised this?

People are selfish. It's never going to happen unless the change is forced. That's always been obvious. For every one person you manage to convince to be green, you've got 100 more people not being green in very drastic ways. And they will not be convinced or stopped.

Climate change will never, ever happen unless we make drastic changes. It literally has to become a dictatorship for the world to follow the precise rules that would be necessary, and people would just have to die if they can't cope with it. It would almost be survival of the fittest again really.

Never gonna happen. Enjoy your life.

@FreedomFaith

You've only just realised this?

People are selfish. It's never going to happen unless the change is forced. That's always been obvious. For every one person you manage to convince to be green, you've got 100 more people not being green in very drastic ways. And they will not be convinced or stopped.

Climate change will never, ever happen unless we make drastic changes. It literally has to become a dictatorship for the world to follow the precise rules that would be necessary, and people would just have to die if they can't cope with it. It would almost be survival of the fittest again really.

Never gonna happen. Enjoy your life.

We don't need to convince people, we need the change to come from the governments we elect that are supposed to do this kind of thing for us - that look after and benefit society and citizens as a whole.

They need to force the companies doing the polluting and the exploiting for the profit of a very small percentage of people.

Unfortunately our political system is run for the benefit of the people with the money and isn't fit for purpose. The politicians in charge are neither brave enough, motivated enough or intelligent enough to do what needs to be done.

Capitalism may have raised the standards of living for many people on the planet (while also killing and exploiting millions) but it has taken us as far as it can and it is now clear that the balance has tipped and it is now taking us downhill at a fairly rapid rate. It's running out of resources to exploit, clearly increasingly unfair and will lead to massive environmental and societal change (and not for the good) unless we find a way to stop it.

Anybody living in one city and working in the other - and commuting in every day - really must see the futility and massive waste (of time, money and resources) in not moving home nearer work or getting a job nearer their home.

I work in a niche role. There are no jobs nearer my home. I commute 15 miles. To get to work I'd need to walk 30 minutes to the train, sit on the train (which is only about 30 mins) and then walk 30 mins up hill to work. I have arthritis and can't do that. It would cost 40K to move house with stamp duty and agency fees and still would need the 30 min walk up hill as we'd need to live near a school because no-one else would be able to drive my kids to school and I start work at 8. It's really not as simple as people make out. I moved here 25 years ago and I've been in my role for 9 years so the home came first. I can't do my job via zoom. Better public transport is what would be needed. Much better.

@CurtainTroubles

Read the current thread about Morrison’s removing the BBE date on milk and you’ll see just how unprepared people are to be inconvenienced. People can’t even be bothered to smell their milk before drinking it.

My worry about this is about having to chuck a load of short-date milk away. We buy for the week so we don't have to drive to pick up more (I can't walk to the shops as too far). I'm really happy with this move in other ways but as I've pretty much never had milk which smells OK after the use-by date I'm not sure this is the great carbon saver people are making out.

Unfortunately we can only use the resources that are available! Supermarkets don’t offer food without plastic packaging or British-grown veg. We can only buy what’s on the shelves. We can’t cycle to work unless jobs are available close to home. I’d love an allotment to grow food but there’s a 20 year waiting list and the council isn’t creating any more. Etc.

Even in the summer I often see imported strawberries and raspberries. If that’s what’s on the shelves then that’s what I have to buy. Virtually everything has plastic packaging too, I have no choice.

Yes I buy out of season veg because they’re on the shelf. If they want people to stop buying them then they need to stop stocking them.

@realhousewifeofmodor

I find it completely bizarre how posters here are harping on about electric cars, reducing private car ownership etc. Those things are all well and good but if everyone stopped using cars now then we wouldn't see any change in the planet for 100 years.

Reducing our methane output is much more of an immediate priority as it will have a much faster impact and something needs to change now.

In short- we need to stop eating meat. Full stop. Drive an electric car and feel smug about cycling to work all you like- if you eat meat then you're a massive hypocrite.

When I spent a short period as a vegetarian, my methane output could have powered a small town - has anyone factored that in?

@daimbarsatemydogsbone you can make a joke out of it, but it doesn't take away from the fact that eating meat is causing the biggest amount of damage to climate change at the moment. And yet most of this thread seem to be blissfully ignoring that- or unaware of it. Which is ironic given that the premise of the thread is about people not wanting to be inconvenienced. Keep the light switches turned off?- sure. Cycle to work?- of course. Forego a bacon sandwich?- too difficult apparently.

[quote realhousewifeofmodor]@daimbarsatemydogsbone you can make a joke out of it, but it doesn't take away from the fact that eating meat is causing the biggest amount of damage to climate change at the moment. And yet most of this thread seem to be blissfully ignoring that- or unaware of it. Which is ironic given that the premise of the thread is about people not wanting to be inconvenienced. Keep the light switches turned off?- sure. Cycle to work?- of course. Forego a bacon sandwich?- too difficult apparently. [/quote]
I am not joking - at all. It was an extremely unpleasant experience for everyone around me, as well as releasing large volumes of hazardous gas.

it seems to me like the vast majority of the costs of going green are on the poorest, just like covid the severest consequences were borne by the poor, most likely to be out of work not have a stable job so furlough was 80% of diddly squat not 80% of 50K, if they were working ti was minimum wage discouraged from public transport if you are poor you can maybe buy a second hand car for 1500K to get you to 5am shift start in industrial estate ( no buses ) but there is no electric car that cheap
making flying cars, meat just the preserve of the rich is deeply deeply unfair using price to stop consumption penalises the wrong people
a relatively poor family that eat meat cheaply sausages and burgers and run a small petrol car and live in a flat and go to Spain for some sun every couple of years will still have a much lower carbon footprint than the vegetarian tesla owning couple in a larger house that travel abroad for educational holidays, business and own two bikes which they can safely lock in a shed in their back garden
Eating seasonally and organically costs more
Maybe the better idea is to builds things that last a car/ washing machine/ cooker /sofa that will be repairable and / or functional for 20 years all phones, laptops, PC's lasting 10 years and easily upgrade no changing operating systems to make old ones obselete in 2 years, clothes that last, furniture including kitchens and bathrooms that should last years and years a dining table or wardrobe should last your whole life. 6 months is not a reasonable length of time for shoes to last (with kids they should outgrow before they wear out) but not for adults

@ParsleySageRosemary

I do agree, but to be fair, Holland is flatter. Where I live, it's incredibly hilly, and the only cyclists are those sporty endurance types.

That's an endlessly repeated excuse. There are hills across the lowlands (thinking of the Benelux, all of which countries are better at promoting cycling than the UK). There are flat areas across Britain. The flat areas of Britain are not more cycling-friendly than the UK on the whole.

The Netherlands got where they have by having the will to do so, and legislating for it, and doing it bit by bit. It didn't happen overnight. It will never happen here because it will never start. Britain's poverty of mind and culture is disgusting.

100% agree. When you see how much more active, fit and healthy the dutch are because they default to cycling and walking (even in small towns with less public transport) you really see how backwards the UK is!

It is especially noticeable in the elderly who look miles younger and healthier than the UK. I see it clearly in my Dutch inlaws and their friends etc compared to my own parents and their generation.

The UK is really quite backwards on a lot of levels and I didn’t realise it until I saw how other cultures live.

You can make a joke out of it, but it doesn't take away from the fact that eating meat is causing the biggest amount of damage to climate change at the moment

While I don't disagree that people should stop eating meat, or at the very least reduce their consumption, it is not the biggest contributor to methane or any other greenhouse gas.

Animal agriculture accounts for around 30% of all anthropogenic methane emissons, while extraction and processing of fossil fuels accounts for around 33%.

When you look at all ghg emissons energy use is by far the biggest issue, which is why the focus is there.

It should be noted that the screenshot showing energy as 74% is from 2016 data, while the other is from the 5th IPCC mitigation of climate change report in 2014. I realise these are a bit out of date now but the 6th IPCC mitigation of climate change report, which will have the most up to date figures, isn't due until October this year, so have to work with what we've got.

@Notthemessiah

Thats kind of my point though although didn't make it clear enough. We literally need a dictatorship across the whole world to force companies and countries to behave in a way to help climate change.

The unfortunate side effect of saving the earth though is people will die. There is no possible way to save everyone and the earth, we are not technologically advanced enough to do it. People may say that they need a car for example to get around because they are disabled, that would just have to end full stop. They either get stuff delivered and people visit them, or nothing. It needs to be drastic actions, anything less won't resolve anything at all.

So it won't ever happen. The earth for humans will cease to exist. We will likely die out regardless.

[quote FreedomFaith]@Notthemessiah

Thats kind of my point though although didn't make it clear enough. We literally need a dictatorship across the whole world to force companies and countries to behave in a way to help climate change.

The unfortunate side effect of saving the earth though is people will die. There is no possible way to save everyone and the earth, we are not technologically advanced enough to do it. People may say that they need a car for example to get around because they are disabled, that would just have to end full stop. They either get stuff delivered and people visit them, or nothing. It needs to be drastic actions, anything less won't resolve anything at all.

So it won't ever happen. The earth for humans will cease to exist. We will likely die out regardless.[/quote]
I don't think that humananity will die out completely, but it's hard not to realise that we can't go on the way we are going and that there will be a lot less of us around in, say, 100 years.

Wars for dwindling resources are coming and societies will collapse into authoritarianism or anarchy. We are already seeing the beginnings of it with Russia's push back into Ukraine and Eastern Europe, China's increasing activity in Africa, authoritarian populists on the rise across Europe and America.

The sad thing is that we do have the resources and technological know how to provide a reasonable standard of living for everyone in the world if the willpower and leadership was there.

But it isn't, so we're fucked (or rather our children and our grandchildren are) unless we do something radical ourselves.

I have done my bit for the environment by not having children.

Folks can praise the Dutch all they like, the point is that it's far more difficult and dangerous to be a cyclist here.
As I said upthread, and pp have echoed, a decent, reasonably priced public transport system is the only way forward.