Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

So - stupid question maybe -how are people viewing things in terms of sustainability, working conditions etc - is this a factor for many?

It's not a stupid question. It's important for me. My favourite brands are made in the UK or EU. I don't buy Toast because most of their stuff isn't.

Thanks to whoever mentioned margaret howell on the previous thread. The clothes are all absolutely beautiful (to me ) and also so far out of my budget that I can fantasy browse to my hearts content.

Does anyone knows where I can buy similar but less expensive clothes? Specifically very sturdy trousers.

Feel a bit lost style wise. We aren't really wearing tailoring to work anymore. I figured out long ago that I prefer trousers to dresses for work. So I have lots of nice smart trousers and thin fitted wool jumpers that i would then wear a tailored jacket over + heels. Post move to WFH and hybrid working that feels too formal even for the office days! No meetings to go to.

At home I wear mom jeans (zero stretch faded 80s denim) and a woolly jumper (or summer top depending on season) with (usually white Nike leather) trainers. Pretty much every day. Or tracksuit bottoms if I'm not leaving the house. Or gym kit. Feels very boring! Also my husband says I dress like a teenager

@Cornisharchitect, are you a Cornish architect? I'm having dealings with an architectural practice at the moment, and all the younger women I've encountered (office has entirely glass walls so you see everyone) have interesting haircuts, wear unstructured black or dark garments, and brogues, Docs or other clumpy shoes/boots.

The junior guys likewise wear black, though more knitwear, and the senior guys either wear narrow-cut suits or hairy knitwear and wild hair, like members of Planxty in the late 70s.

I like net a Porter for work clothes but £££. My trousers I spend a lot so they can stand the test of time and are structured and made of good materials. I have two pairs of thick wool Chloe trousers one black one brown, have lasted years.

@BigHuff

Thanks to whoever mentioned margaret howell on the previous thread. The clothes are all absolutely beautiful (to me ) and also so far out of my budget that I can fantasy browse to my hearts content.

Does anyone knows where I can buy similar but less expensive clothes? Specifically very sturdy trousers.

I love MH. You can sometimes find them second hand on eBay or other clothes sale sites.

I bought this blouse from White Stuff recently www.whitestuff.com/womens/tops-and-tees/mid-teal-lilly-embroidered-jersey-top/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpN6ahcyi9QIVGeDtCh0gcAY4EAQYASABEgLvbPD_BwE#fo_c=3597&fo_k=bf0144c4b4a9a4cb41b9a5faa42ffeeb&fo_s=gplauk
I think it's a really nice colour and can be dressed up for work or down for casual wear.

Can I just big up the M&S footwear. A friend of mine is friends with an upmarket cobbler who rates the quality highly.
A bit off topic for this thread, but I’ve been buying the DC’s school shoes from M&S for a few years, and they fit abs last really well. I can’t buy shoes for myself there anymore because they stopped doing women’s 9s, but I have a brilliant pair of navy leather brogues which are 6 or 7 years old and going strong. They polish up beautifully, and will take a sole. They are leather, and leather lined, and like the school shoes, considerably cheaper than Clark’s equivalent.

The dress over jeans doesn't really compare to shalwar kameez, because jeans are much heavier.

A shirtdress or tunic dress over pyjama trousers or harem pants would be a better equivalent.

@PattyPan I really like that blouse. It is only still available in a size 6 though.

@Hadtocomment

Getting back to the original question though and also to move the question on a bit. I'm assuming that part of the issue is to do with costs and moving away from fast fashion - which people know is hugely detrimental to the environment - is that right?

I'm middle-class but baulk at the prices on a lot of the sites suggested by MNnetters. I do - however - when I look for stuff these days try to look for things that are sustainable/more fairtrade/ecologically friendly/good working conditions etc etc as far as I am able to discern this. Even so - the items I've found haven't been the prices of a lot of the things I see on some of these popular MN sites. So - stupid question maybe -how are people viewing things in terms of sustainability, working conditions etc - is this a factor for many? Are there good sustainable, more ecological clothing with good working conditions that are more affordable? I don't subscribe to the price per wear arguments - as I see this trotted out so much from people buying vast handbag collections where it is used as a justification but at the end of the day if you are thinking along sustainable or anti-fast fashion lines noone really needs multiple super expensive handbags!

I'm not judging people by the way - although no I don't understand the bag thing and never will. But if anything not fast fashion or more consideration of conditions and sustainability is part of the thinking for some - perhaps this needs chatting about too? Those talking about very very low cost items also need to accept that if you buy something incredibly cheap that it is usually part of the fast fashion problem and it's hard to imagine how the working conditions needed to make things so cheap can be justified. I suppose I'm looking for a middle ground here.

It is definitely a factor for me and I guess for a lot of people based on comments on the previous thread about UK made clothing.

For me I would like to own a very small number of very high quality clothes and wear them until they wear out. But expensive does not always = high quality or durable. And I don't really know that people who buy more expensive/more sustainable clothes buy fewer of them.

[quote Frenchfurze]@Cornisharchitect, are you a Cornish architect? I'm having dealings with an architectural practice at the moment, and all the younger women I've encountered (office has entirely glass walls so you see everyone) have interesting haircuts, wear unstructured black or dark garments, and brogues, Docs or other clumpy shoes/boots.

The junior guys likewise wear black, though more knitwear, and the senior guys either wear narrow-cut suits or hairy knitwear and wild hair, like members of Planxty in the late 70s.[/quote]
I am Cornish and I am an architect!

The office you’re describing sounds ….. interesting

I’d feel awkward and uncomfortable walking into an office like that. I shuddered. And if I feel uncomfortable imagine how the clients would feel!

If there’s anything quirky about us lot it’s our silly print sock obsession.

The MH clothes don't have hanger appeal but they are great when you wear them. Toast is a bit like that.

I rate M&S footwear too. They look good and aren't expensive. Same goes for jeans

I don't understand the MN hatred of M&S. I think the stuff is good. What is stocked at each store does vary and perhaps it's that I am going to M&S in London that is the difference

I have things from New Look (London again), Tu, Zara, Dorothy Perkins, Topshop etc. I buy most things 2nd hand

But UK made fashion isn't necessarily ethical. Look at boohoo.

Ahhh I am glad it's not just me who likes White Stuff! their clothes were ridiculed on another MN thread and I had no idea why. To me, they are colourful, comfy, quirky/retro, use lovely fabrics (often with silk or cotton included for extra softness), and I like their attention to detail -- there's often a little trimming like unusual buttons or embroidery. Last but not least, I can get my hot little hands on them cheaply! Just a quick check on eBay (used but good condition) came up with zillions of choices. A few samples here (size 10): hoodie £7.99 (bid, but offers accepted), dress £10.50 (buy it now price), sage green velvet skirt £9.99 (buy it now price). Cheap and cheerful ticks the boxes for me!

^ cashmere not cotton!! d'oh

@KimikosNightmare

So - stupid question maybe -how are people viewing things in terms of sustainability, working conditions etc - is this a factor for many?

It's not a stupid question. It's important for me. My favourite brands are made in the UK or EU. I don't buy Toast because most of their stuff isn't.

Can you name some of the brands, please? I did not realise there were so many companies making clothing in the UK - I was very pleasantly surprised to see so many examples on the previous thread!

@RoyalFamilyFan

But UK made fashion isn't necessarily ethical. Look at boohoo.

Agreed. There are a lot of labour abuses going on in the Leicester textiles industry.

Ethical Consumer magazine did a guide to clothing a couple of issues ago for anyone who is interested in shopping ethically. They did rankings for general/high street brands and separately for brands marketed as ethical/sustainable. The best high street brands were Patagonia, Reformation and Nobody's Child and the ones to avoid were Amazon (unsurprisingly), Boohoo, Misspap, Pretty Little Thing, Shein and Primark.

Sorry, me again just spotted this as an example of what I mean by White Stuff attention to detail e.g. I love the assorted buttons and the way the lining has been finished. (Lined skirt, £9.23 buy it now price secondhand on eBay)

Why so many threads putting downers on other people's style, live and let live

White Stuff is ok. As a pp, the finishing, fabric and detail is good.

@BigHuff, try this link
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/3667982-If-i-like-Toast-and-Margaret-Howell-with-pics#prettyPhoto

@toddybell

I've just come across this thread and my take:

I spent years working out to get to a certain size and then maintain that size so that I could fit into clothes I was told (magazines, etc.) would suit my shape, make me look stylish/hip/current, etc. then I got pregnant and gained a lot of weight. I've tried and tried to address the weight issue and have lost some but have also come to terms with the fact that I'll never have the body I once had which means all of my old wardrobe (which I still can't get rid of- quality pieces which cost me a small fortune) has gone to waste. Since having the DC, I've discovered the Toast/Seasalt/Ganni/Shirin Guild style suits me much better- I can move about freely, not be self conscious, for example, about VPL, wearing shape wear underneath, etc. and I find it liberating. I probably look like a sack of spuds when people see me but I genuinely don't care- I feel much happier in what I wear now than I did in my slimmer days when everything was planned and coordinated and may have restricted what I was able to do (e.g. run for the bus!). The slouchy look suits me fine. I'm not here to win any fashion awards (confession: I still wear Uggs).

Is this… me? Huge suitcase full of size 8 and 10 Reiss, Burberry, Boden, Ted Baker (before they became more high street-y), Sandro, Maje, Kooples under the bed. I’m now creeping to size 16. I’m back at work and dreading going back to office and this shapeless stuff is exactly what I’m looking at, it’s quality fabric and “stylish”. I would look ridiculous going to work in polyester jersey new look stuff, not looking down on it, it’s what I wear at home. I have no idea what to wear.

Can you name some of the brands, please? I did not realise there were so many companies making clothing in the UK - I was very pleasantly surprised to see so many examples on the previous thread!

At the moment a lot of my clothes are from & Daughter , Palava and Edina Ronay. Knitwear from Palava and Eribé. One fabulous dress from Eponine.

I have dresses from a local boutique from a brand called Emperor's New Clothes which recycle fabrics. Jackets from local independent dressmaker or other UK or Irish tweed companies. Max Mara coats which are made in Italy. Lots of tailored stuff from a Dutch shop Pauw. So not all UK.

Shoes are easy to buy from EU producers as Spain, Italy and Portugal have really cornered the market. Not sure if there are shoes made in UK ( There probably are but suspect they might be too utilitarian for my taste)

I'm so fed up of women asking "Why don't you buy men's clothes?" when we complain about quality, because there's a certain amount of sizing privilege involved. I'm 5ft 1 and even most women's clothes are too long for me, so where the AF am I going to find men's clothes that fit me?!

As a short person, I'll give a chance to any company that makes petites (which is an ever-diminishing number). This means I'll often buy things from shops where I wouldn't necessarily have chosen them for the style, if I'd had a choice. That's why I have a couple of things from Land's End (boring but comfortable), and a few plain things from Asos and Boohoo.

Anyone who's very short, very tall, or larger than a size 18/20 knows this. We shop where it's possible to shop, which isn't always where we'd like.

And don't even get me started about ethical/fairtrade clothing companies. They make a much narrower sizing range than high street shops and then what we request more sizes, they claim there isn't a demand when we know full well that there is. If you don't make ethical clothes that for us then you can't go complaining when we buy stuff from Boohoo, who seem to actually want customers.

[quote IncognitoBurrito]@thepeopleversuswork yeah, I wasn’t really meaning that 70s dress style - more big skirt with tailored blouse and jacket - maybe late Edwardian? I love this lady’s style[/quote]
1920s lady write is spot-on actually. And arty types like Dora Carrington and Iris Tree. Virginia Woolf on occasions. Before lockdown you could go to any private gallery exhibition or preview and more than half the women there would be in Toast or its ilk. That's its constituency.

In the case Toast I think the modesty thing is a red herring. My Toast dress has quite a low neck. But it's a winter dress. It has substance ands sleeves. I live in the country in a cold place and need warm clothes. I'm constantly amazed by pictures of people in tee shirts in their homes winter. When did that become a thing?
And it's not the only style of clothes that I wear-just one of several. I like authentic fabric and don't like pattern, ornamentation or logos. I like scoop necks because I have lovely necklaces (not Pru Leith dos) and although I'm old I sometimes wear short skirts with thick tights because I have good legs.