Maternity leave dilemma

[chineybumps]

Posting on AIBU because I have less than a week to tell my company that I'm pregnant yet again.

I've been on maternity leave since April 2021 and will be taking the full year. I had only been with the company since August 2020 so I only qualified for SMP and not the company's maternity sceme.

I'm pregnant again and will be due at the end of April so will be going straight on maternity leave again. This time I qualify for the company's maternity scheme which I've copied and pasted below.

• 8 weeks at 100% of your normal pay
• 8 weeks of Statutory Maternity Pay topped up to 50% of your average weekly
earnings if this is higher
• 23 weeks of statutory maternity pay
• The remaining 13 weeks would be taken as unpaid leave

I plan to leave work once my second maternity leave ends. I'm more than happy to just receive SMP from the beginning (it's really not much different from their policy anyway) as I don't want to have to pay any money back when I want to leave.

Now my question is, can I let them know this when I send them my MATB1 form letting them know I'm pregnant? I have to outline when I plan to go on maternity leave so in this email can I just say something like, 'Can I receive SMP from the beginning of my leave as opposed to the company's policy as I may consider leaving upon my return?' Or is it best not to mention leaving?

I recently saw a post saying a woman mentioned leaving before she started her maternity leave and her work paid her SMP in one huge chunk just so they could take her off their payroll and she got taxed MASSIVELY.

The other option is that I take the enhanced pay and take the annual leave I would have accumulated from 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 once my second maternity leave ends and use that to technically 'work' instead of paying the company back.

I've just read that back and I'm so confused so I hope others can understand my predicament😭 please help! What do I do?!

@Onemorebaby

Just use your annual leave to go part time, e.g work 3 days a week for the 3 months or whatever it is that you need in order to keep the enhanced maternity pay. Fwiw NHS is go back for 3 months. It will be in the policy, just email HR for a copy or get it off the intranet if it's a big company. It's really common to use annual leave up in this way.

My work place wouldn't have allowed me to use my leave in this way. It's a big employer.

I work for a big employer but there’s no funding for cover for mat leave. We’ve had people do this - take back to back leaves knowing they weren’t returning but not letting the employer hire a replacement - and it was hellish for those having to cover. I couldn’t do it, morally, but this is MN and you’ll be told that it’s womens rights that you can.

You need to speak to someone in HR - how does a big company not have anyone you can speak to?

@Onemorebaby

Just use your annual leave to go part time, e.g work 3 days a week for the 3 months or whatever it is that you need in order to keep the enhanced maternity pay. Fwiw NHS is go back for 3 months. It will be in the policy, just email HR for a copy or get it off the intranet if it's a big company. It's really common to use annual leave up in this way.

@Onemorebaby I'm more than happy to not get the enhanced maternity as I can make it work with SMP alongside the benefits I already get

[quote chineybumps]@Freecuthbert thank you so much for this! Sorry you had such a tough time with your employer and I hope you won your case:)

As long as I receive SMP I couldn't care less🤣 that's all I want!

If something is not in the policy then it's not the policy, don't let the company fob you off and make up stuff on the spot or after the fact.

This is definitely something my work would try to do as it seems no one knows anything. It's all very frustrating but I'll take this on board thank yoy[/quote]
Yes I don't think you should worry about whether you're entitled to SMP, by mine and others' calculations you'd still be entitled to it due to when your qualifying period is.

I did thankfully win my case! And it's now one of the first things that comes up when you Google my company

I really hope for your sake that your employer doesn't try to be difficult about this. Stick to your guns and be assertive, redirect them to the policy if they are stating things that aren't in there. However if wording in some areas is vague (i.e. what is "normal earnings" they refer to for the 100% and 50% calculations?), then I'm not sure what you can do in those instances. But they can't just make up stuff that isn't in the policy.

I hate that women are treated like CFs for daring to get pregnant because it inconveniences the company. In the grand scheme of things, it's a very small part of our careers. And there's never a "right" time to get pregnant anyway!

Also it's not uncommon for women to fall pregnant on their maternity leave. It's happened everywhere I work with at least one of my colleagues. So surely the company must know what to do in these instances.

@MabelsApron

I work for a big employer but there’s no funding for cover for mat leave. We’ve had people do this - take back to back leaves knowing they weren’t returning but not letting the employer hire a replacement - and it was hellish for those having to cover. I couldn’t do it, morally, but this is MN and you’ll be told that it’s womens rights that you can.

You need to speak to someone in HR - how does a big company not have anyone you can speak to?

@MabelsApron I'm selfish and will always do what's in my best interest when it comes to work. I don't need people on MN to tell me what to do when it comes to things like that. My company already have someone covering my mat leave, they like her and if I take mat leave again, they'll most likely keep her on for cover. Once I leave, I'm sure they'll offer her my position. Even if they didn't have anyone to cover, I'd still put my best interests first.

It's easy to access HR through emails however you rarely get a response. Seeing as time isn't really on my side, I need to call someone and get it over and done with. Easier said than done for some reason

@MabelsApron

I work for a big employer but there’s no funding for cover for mat leave. We’ve had people do this - take back to back leaves knowing they weren’t returning but not letting the employer hire a replacement - and it was hellish for those having to cover. I couldn’t do it, morally, but this is MN and you’ll be told that it’s womens rights that you can.

You need to speak to someone in HR - how does a big company not have anyone you can speak to?

Sorry but this is your employer's responsibility to sort out cover. Lots of women either plan for their children to be close in age, or fall pregnant quickly after having the first due to increased fertility. So your idea of morals is to plan pregnancies around what suits the company because they're too tightfisted to get maternity cover?

The other option is that I take the enhanced pay and take the annual leave I would have accumulated from 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 once my second maternity leave ends and use that to technically 'work' instead of paying the company back.

Not all employers allow this. In some cases you have to actually - not “technically” - return to work to avoid repaying the enhanced pay.

@chineybumps you may have the option of just saying to HR that you don't know whether or not you'll return to work yet - where I work, this option means you get SMP but not the enhanced payments you'd get if you were committing to returning to work, and you still have your job in case something changes while you're off. If you then decide you're definitely not going back, you don't need to re-pay anything. A lot can happen in a year, so I'd keep as many options open as you can.

Do not quit, do not tell them you plan on leaving!

Take the SMP and if your circumstances change you can always go back to work. What if your partner gets made redundant in 6 months?

If you have a good relationship with your boss mention you are unsure about returning but leave it at that.

@Freecuthbert whew! Thank you. Can I just ask how you worked out the qualifying period? I did ask a pp as I'm confused on that bit and don't understand how to work it out.

Ooo I want to know the company now🤣 I wish I could read up about it. As you said, so many companies take the piss with woman once they've had a baby, it's really quite disgusting so happy you had the energy in you to take it further and not just brush it under the carpet!

Definitely! The wording is a bit tricky in some places but I'm trying to understand it as best as I can in case someone tries to make something up that isn't in writing

@chineybumps

Your EWC is 24th April, so I counted 15 weeks back on my calendar which took me to 9th January. So your qualifying week is 09/01/22 to 15/01/22. You have to have earned at least an average of £120 for 8 weeks up to and including the qualifying week. You said you only lose a bit of SMP in the final week, so your average over the 8 weeks must definitely be above £120 as you receive £151.97 a week in SMP. Hope that makes sense

Can't help really but did just want to say I had my SMP in a lump due to redundancy and HMRC were really good at sorting out the tax rebate for me (it was midway through the tax year). J did withdraw from the pension scheme a couple of months in advance because I knew I'd lose a load to that if I didn't, as I would have for student loan if handy already thankfully got rid of it. I think I only paid an extra £100 or so NI in the end so that was a loss I could swallow.

Not much help to your dilemma but did just want to say if you can avoid pension and student loan payout an SMP lump sum doesn't have to be a nightmare

You can check the qualifying period yourself at www.gov.uk/maternity-paternity-pay-leave
You said your due date is 26.4.22 which makes your qualifying period 20.11.21 to 15.1.22.

Since you've been getting SMP (usually £151.97/week) you will meet the requirement for £120/week on average during the qualifying period. You need to have earned a minimum of £960 in total (8 x £120) and if you're paid monthly at the end of each month, you should have got two payments of £658.54 during your qualifying period, which takes you comfortably over the £960.

So, as PPs have already said, you'll definitely be eligible for SMP. Obviously none of us can advise about the enhanced (contractual) maternity pay without knowing the terms and conditions. Check your employment contract, employee handbook and/or parental benefits policy. If you don't have access to these documents, HR should provide them. It's probably easier to get the document than an answer to a specific question relating to your personal circumstances. Once you have the relevant information you can ask Mumsnet or contact your local citizens advice or one of the specialist maternity helplines (I think Maternity Action has one?)

If I were you I think I would end the current maternity leave early, and start the next maternity leave as soon as it's allowed, which is 6th February. You would then get SMP for 39 weeks, which would take you to 6th November or thereabouts. I would end my employment when SMP ends, which means giving notice at least 2 months before that I think (so at the beginning of September).

If you are entitled to any enhanced (contractual) maternity pay, but would be required to pay it back, you could ask your employer not to give it to you (but say it's because you want to keep your options open, not because you definitely don't intend to return). However, if they did pay it to you, the amount you'd have to pay back would be offset by any outstanding annual leave that you're owed.

The only advantage of taking two full years of maternity leave is that for the last 3 months of each year's leave, when you are not getting SMP, you would be accruing annual leave, but (depending on how much annual leave you get) that would only amount to about 2 weeks' pay... personally I would prefer to stick to 2 x 9 months of maternity leave and end my employment sooner, rather than stringing it out for 2 years. Up to you though.

You can't make a decision until you know how long you have to return for to qualify for not having to pay EMP back.

My company pay 6 months full pay plus 3m statutory but I had to return for a year which was a bit of a bore. Ultimately you can't make a decision until you know this.

Don't tell them whether you're coming back or not, you're not obliged to and it won't work in your favour to do this.

Also with the PP who said you might not be able to use your AL towards the qualifying period for "return to work" under EMP - legally once your mat leave has ended and you have returned to work, there is no difference between a day worked and a day in employment on annual leave which you have rightfully accrued- don't let your HR team tell you any different.

@daisymade

Also with the PP who said you might not be able to use your AL towards the qualifying period for "return to work" under EMP - legally once your mat leave has ended and you have returned to work, there is no difference between a day worked and a day in employment on annual leave which you have rightfully accrued- don't let your HR team tell you any different.

Oh wow, I didn't pick up on this! What excellent advice. I wouldn't have thought of it this way, but now you put it like that you're right.

@Freecuthbert rightttt that makes so much sense. I'm sure I knew that when I originally read the policy months back in September but since starting this thread I got so confused again🤦‍♀️ I'll actually still qualify for SMP by the 15th as it ends later January so that's even better. Thanks so much for the breakdown and the other advice, I really appreciate it X

@AnotherEmma thank you for the link, I'll definitely check that out tomorrow. Thank you for also explaining the qualifying dates and how it works in regards to pay that I've received. I actually get paid 4 weekly but I've definitely earned over £960 within that time frame so that's great.

Your second paragraph is really interesting as I agreed with every point whilst reading it haha. Could you say why you'd take maternity leave as soon as possible?

Tbh I did think the same thing and thought seeing as the last three months of my maternity leave is unpaid, why not take maternity leave again asap so I'll still be receiving SMP. I'm also more than happy to just receive SMP as opposed to getting the enhanced maternity pay.

Maybe I'll end my maternity early (I have to give 8 weeks notice for if I wanted to come back early, would this still be the case even though I'll be going on maternity leave again?) use all the holiday I've accumulated in this past tax year and then start maternity leave again? Or just end my maternity early and go on maternity leave again and ask if I can carry my annual leave until next year? So many options lol

@daisymade

You can't make a decision until you know how long you have to return for to qualify for not having to pay EMP back.

My company pay 6 months full pay plus 3m statutory but I had to return for a year which was a bit of a bore. Ultimately you can't make a decision until you know this.

Don't tell them whether you're coming back or not, you're not obliged to and it won't work in your favour to do this.

Also with the PP who said you might not be able to use your AL towards the qualifying period for "return to work" under EMP - legally once your mat leave has ended and you have returned to work, there is no difference between a day worked and a day in employment on annual leave which you have rightfully accrued- don't let your HR team tell you any different.

Yeah I agree! This is why I came to MN because I knew people would make me see sense lol. As for the annual leave, that's so true. I didn't think of it like that at all. Thank you:)

Also with the PP who said you might not be able to use your AL towards the qualifying period for "return to work" under EMP - legally once your mat leave has ended and you have returned to work, there is no difference between a day worked and a day in employment on annual leave which you have rightfully accrued- don't let your HR team tell you any different.

This is absolutely true, but be careful not to jump too far ahead in your planning.

You might work out that if you use your carry over leave from last year, plus your accrued leave for this year, it'd be enough to qualify you to keep the additional maternity pay without actually returning to work (or working for a minimal period).

The trouble is that your employer isn't obliged to allow you to take your leave like that (though you absolutely should not lose the leave you accrued).

It's generally in a company's interest, for business continuity reasons, to allow maternity returners to use a lot of leave before coming back to work. That said, they generally offer additional maternity pay to encourage retention of female employees, and won't necessarily make it easy for you to qualify for the additional maternity pay and then immediately lose you.

O I bet your popular at work

@Joinedforthis2021

O I bet your popular at work

Doesn't matter, hope OP is enjoying her family! :)

Your mat pay will be based on your pay between certain weeks, so if you are on mat leave during those weeks on smp, that is what it will be calculated on, not your normal wages. The 90% SMP for 6 weeks is the same.

@altforvarmt

Also with the PP who said you might not be able to use your AL towards the qualifying period for "return to work" under EMP - legally once your mat leave has ended and you have returned to work, there is no difference between a day worked and a day in employment on annual leave which you have rightfully accrued- don't let your HR team tell you any different.

This is absolutely true, but be careful not to jump too far ahead in your planning.

You might work out that if you use your carry over leave from last year, plus your accrued leave for this year, it'd be enough to qualify you to keep the additional maternity pay without actually returning to work (or working for a minimal period).

The trouble is that your employer isn't obliged to allow you to take your leave like that (though you absolutely should not lose the leave you accrued).

It's generally in a company's interest, for business continuity reasons, to allow maternity returners to use a lot of leave before coming back to work. That said, they generally offer additional maternity pay to encourage retention of female employees, and won't necessarily make it easy for you to qualify for the additional maternity pay and then immediately lose you.

Very smart thinking @altforvarmt thank you for this! I'm going to somehow find a number from HR today and ask a few questions but I definitely won't mention that I'll be leaving

@Joinedforthis2021 I actually am so I'm not sure what your point is lol

@bcc89 thank you!💗

Only commit to what suits you best, lovely. Every (wo)man for themselves. Do what's best for you and baby, in terms of work, financially, being open about not wanting to return, keeping it under wraps if need be.

So many threads at the moment with business owners saying they put their businesses before women's rights.

You do you!

@MabelsApron

I work for a big employer but there’s no funding for cover for mat leave. We’ve had people do this - take back to back leaves knowing they weren’t returning but not letting the employer hire a replacement - and it was hellish for those having to cover. I couldn’t do it, morally, but this is MN and you’ll be told that it’s womens rights that you can.

You need to speak to someone in HR - how does a big company not have anyone you can speak to?

This...im on maternity at the moment and was honest from the start.When I started I had manager who came back to fulfil minimum time back in order to not to have to pay back enhanced maternity .She was useless and then feigned stress and was off for months before quitting.It was a nightmare for everyone. BUT this is MN where its all about me ,myself and I when it comes to absolutely everything...husbands,work,enviroment even the baby sometimes.Not surprised at the comments