Maternity leave dilemma

[chineybumps]

Posting on AIBU because I have less than a week to tell my company that I'm pregnant yet again.

I've been on maternity leave since April 2021 and will be taking the full year. I had only been with the company since August 2020 so I only qualified for SMP and not the company's maternity sceme.

I'm pregnant again and will be due at the end of April so will be going straight on maternity leave again. This time I qualify for the company's maternity scheme which I've copied and pasted below.

• 8 weeks at 100% of your normal pay
• 8 weeks of Statutory Maternity Pay topped up to 50% of your average weekly
earnings if this is higher
• 23 weeks of statutory maternity pay
• The remaining 13 weeks would be taken as unpaid leave

I plan to leave work once my second maternity leave ends. I'm more than happy to just receive SMP from the beginning (it's really not much different from their policy anyway) as I don't want to have to pay any money back when I want to leave.

Now my question is, can I let them know this when I send them my MATB1 form letting them know I'm pregnant? I have to outline when I plan to go on maternity leave so in this email can I just say something like, 'Can I receive SMP from the beginning of my leave as opposed to the company's policy as I may consider leaving upon my return?' Or is it best not to mention leaving?

I recently saw a post saying a woman mentioned leaving before she started her maternity leave and her work paid her SMP in one huge chunk just so they could take her off their payroll and she got taxed MASSIVELY.

The other option is that I take the enhanced pay and take the annual leave I would have accumulated from 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 once my second maternity leave ends and use that to technically 'work' instead of paying the company back.

I've just read that back and I'm so confused so I hope others can understand my predicament😭 please help! What do I do?!

Thank you for the links! Sorry I can't @ everyone I'm too stressed right now lol.

My due date is 26.04 so EWC is 24.04

@RoseAndRose

your maternity pay is calucuiated on what you were actually paid in the qualifying weeks.

If you were on SMP or in the unpaid weeks during the qualifying period, then you won't get more than SMP this time either. Because there are no earnings during that period.

@RoseAndRose so even if I was on unpaid maternity leave in the qualifying week I'd still at least receive SMP?

@Asiama

OP I am reading your policy differently to most of the people in here. The way I read it during the first 16 weeks the company will top up your SMP to be at 100% or 50% of your salary pre mat leave. So if SMP is 0, they will have to pay a big top up. I think you need to find out what the definition of "normal pay" is.

I thought something like that too @Asiama I need to find numbers for HR and speak to them asap because I'm so very confused!

[quote chineybumps]@TheSnowyOwl I've read through the policy and I'm sure I qualify for SMP? All I need is 26 or more weeks continuous service and I've had that from before I went on maternity leave. As for the company's maternity pay, you must have 12 months continuous service. I'm sure when you're on maternity leave it's still considered as working or 'continuous service' in this case? I'm starting to overthink now😂

I agree with not letting work know in advance too, thank you[/quote]
I would def check with your HR team or triple check the policy. Mine says the 26 continuous leave but there is a caveat of subsequent pregnancies and I need to be back and build up that 26 weeks again after maternity leave. I would doubt that you are entitled and if you are well odne to your company.

I would also let them know sooner rather later.

You may find you have to take your annual leave within the current leave year i.e. instead of the last few weeks of maternity leave. A lot of companies won’t let you roll it over to the next year. If you took your leave at the end instead of your unpaid weeks of mat leave then you would be paid full pay for those weeks. If you can work this so that this is within the qualifying weeks then you’d get more maternity pay on the next one.

You need to be earning on average at least £120 a week during the 8 week qualifying period to qualify at all (there are some circumstances if your pay is lower, such as a furlough reduction, where you can still qualify)

As SMP is based on 90% of your earnings in the qualifying period, then your company's policy seems to be to take that 90% to 100%. It won't be based on earnings at an earlier point in your career.

What I'm not sure about is whether SMP counts as earnings. And if not, it'll be MA. I suggest you get on to maternityaction and clarify

maternityaction.org.uk/advice/pregnant-during-maternity-leave/

OP what is it you’re stressed about? Presumably if you’ve had two back to back pregnancies and won’t be going back to work anyway financiers are reasonably ok so I would work on having £0 pay for the second mat leave/going forward and anything else is a bonus (not meant to be goady at all).

Hi OP, this was very similar to my DSis, she used KIT days, accured holiday and returned for a week before heading back off on Mat Leave so she would qualify for SMP again. She told the employer she was happy to just take SMP so she could leave her options open.

Can you take accrued holiday as pay and save it for your mat leave?

@RoseAndRose thank you for the link and yes that's also what I'm thinking regarding the earnings. It was all so clear at one point, I don't know why it seems complicated now!

@4pmwinetimebebeh

OP what is it you’re stressed about? Presumably if you’ve had two back to back pregnancies and won’t be going back to work anyway financiers are reasonably ok so I would work on having £0 pay for the second mat leave/going forward and anything else is a bonus (not meant to be goady at all).

I never said anything about finances being okay. I'll be getting a new job, I just want to leave this one as I'm not able to reduce my hours or go down to part time

@TwittleBee

Hi OP, this was very similar to my DSis, she used KIT days, accured holiday and returned for a week before heading back off on Mat Leave so she would qualify for SMP again. She told the employer she was happy to just take SMP so she could leave her options open.

This sounds like a smart idea and it may be something I'll have to do!

www.acas.org.uk/your-maternity-leave-pay-and-other-rights

If you take the whole year off, you are allowed to carry over holiday.

‘ You should usually take all your legal minimum (statutory) holiday in the holiday year. But if you're unable to use it because you're on maternity leave for a whole holiday year or most of a holiday year, your employer should allow you to carry it over.’

The 8 week qualifying period for you is 20 Nov 2021 - 15 Jan 2022 I think. You were earning SMP then, so should qualify for SMP again. However, it will be 90% of SMP that you are eligible for, rather than £151 or 90% of your normal salary. It’s also a bit late for you to now change that average by switching to annual leave now!

Whether your enhanced policy will top you up to your normal salary will depend on the wording, but there’s a good chance it will. It might just top you up to SMP though.

I wouldn’t tell work that you’re definitely not coming back. As others have said, that might change by April 2023, and you don’t want to pay more tax than you have to (although I actually think you wouldn’t, and might actually pay less NI as you happen to be due at the beginning of a tax year) AND you want to qualify for the annual leave - that is an extra months pay, so worth hanging on for.

@CheesyMother this is going to sound so silly but can you explain how you worked out the qualifying period? I've read the policy 100 times and the numbers are messing with my head, I can't figure out exactly what it's saying!

I hope that's right as all I want is to qualify for SMP, if not I might aswell hand my notice in now! I agree with the rest of your post, thanks so much for commenting. Please come back to say how you worked it out😂

you accrue holiday leave when you are on mat leave anyhow so i would not resign yet!

No offence but you are a number (as are we all)!, and do not owe them anything so i would take the enhanced, build up your holidays and then resign and take your holidays to "pay back" the 3 months enhanced - i know many people who have done that

you will be better off doing that

www.gov.uk/maternity-paternity-calculator

This tool is intended for employers but you can use it to calculate your qualifying period and how much you would get on statutory terms which will be based on your SMP

Can you not do some kit days and start your annual leave earlier so you actually get paid without going back to work properly.

Also qualifying weeks aren't work you worked on those weeks it's what you were paid on those weeks x

OP, my first advice to you is put yourself first in all of this, protect yourself and your baby. Recently I've seen a few threads on here from employer's perspective criticising pregnant staff and other posters (including business owners) condoning discrimination. I have first hand experience of this too and faced my employer in court for pregnancy discrimination. So basically... do not give them any indication of you leaving, and keep info on a need-to-know basis. You don't want this to bite you in the arse later, even if illegal from their side. Some companies can be particularly sneaky and find a way around things. Benefits for holding onto this job while on your next maternity leave include: not having gaps in your employment history, accruing annual leave while on maternity leave (which by law has to be carried over into the next year if you're still on mat leave), if they have to later make redundancies you could get a redundancy package over nothing as you've already left or leaving anyway in their eyes. Also having at the least a job to come back to if your circumstances change (partner loses job etc), or if you unfortunately become long term sick at end of mat leave you'd protect your right to SSP and again prevent gaps in employment history, or if suitable part time or flexible working does become available in the company later on which I have seen happen. Plus any company benefits you may currently have you will still have in the mean time.

Secondly, to me it seems you are eligible for SMP as you are earning SMP during the qualifying period. It may not be the full amount of SMP but it's certainly more than nothing. However, I think it would be best to take the company package if you are entitled to it. You will have plenty of annual leave to take after your next maternity leave which should make up the required return time to not have to pay it back. Alternatively, you can ring fence some money for it, but you shouldn't have to.

Do you have a copy of the maternity policy? Please request a copy of the most up to date version asap if not. You do not have to say it's in relation to you being pregnant again, as I have requested a copy while on mat leave before to double check things around my return to work. You need to make sure you are very clear and familiar with all of it and how it affects you and your second maternity leave. If something is not in the policy then it's not the policy, don't let the company fob you off and make up stuff on the spot or after the fact. They tried that with me which didn't go down well for them in court.

Why wouldn't you just save all the extra money in a separate account to pay back any the end of your employment if you need?

You circumstances may well change in a year. I wouldn't tell my employer at this stage that I might be leaving, not a chance.

@GettingItOutThere

you accrue holiday leave when you are on mat leave anyhow so i would not resign yet!

No offence but you are a number (as are we all)!, and do not owe them anything so i would take the enhanced, build up your holidays and then resign and take your holidays to "pay back" the 3 months enhanced - i know many people who have done that

you will be better off doing that

This is definitely true! Thank you

@Galliano

www.gov.uk/maternity-paternity-calculator

This tool is intended for employers but you can use it to calculate your qualifying period and how much you would get on statutory terms which will be based on your SMP

Ooo thank you for this @Galliano I'll definitely have a look!

It would make sense for you to go back ASAP & use KIT days and unused annual leave. Maybe do some short weeks and do 13 weeks before going off again.

Do you have someone who can help with a few childcare days?

You'll be off again soon anyway so won't miss out on time with baby number one.

I do think you should be honest with them though - they will have someone covering your maternity and may want to keep hold of them if they're good.

The only issue you may have is your reference. What would your current employers comment on if you've only done 8 months followed by two years off?

@Freecuthbert thank you so much for this! Sorry you had such a tough time with your employer and I hope you won your case:)

As long as I receive SMP I couldn't care less🤣 that's all I want!

If something is not in the policy then it's not the policy, don't let the company fob you off and make up stuff on the spot or after the fact.

This is definitely something my work would try to do as it seems no one knows anything. It's all very frustrating but I'll take this on board thank yoy

Just use your annual leave to go part time, e.g work 3 days a week for the 3 months or whatever it is that you need in order to keep the enhanced maternity pay. Fwiw NHS is go back for 3 months.
It will be in the policy, just email HR for a copy or get it off the intranet if it's a big company. It's really common to use annual leave up in this way.