To refuse overseas work trip?

[Bumbleumbo]

Posting here for traffic..

I work for a large global company and each year over 200 employees from around the world meet for a conference in the US. This moved to virtual in 2021 but the will be back to in person this year, with a 6 night, 5 day trip planned next month. I don’t want to go. I’m worried about catching Covid whilst I’m out there and get stuck in quarantine. I’m a single parent to three children and my ExH is unable to have them anyway due to health issues.

I am obliged to travel overseas as part of my job and I’m expected to go. Travel wasn’t an issue pre-pandemic, however so much has changed over the last two years and childcare support is a challenge. Isolation could mean getting stuck in the US for weeks. Can I refuse to go even if it’s in my contract?

@RedHelenB

Covid is the red herring. Your problem is childcare by the sounds of it, which presumably will be a problem for a few years? Time to resign and find a job that doesn't involve overnight travel

OP’s subsequent posts state that childcare isn’t an issue and wasn’t an issue until the pandemic. She can go to the conference and she can travel. The concern is contracting Covid and being stuck, unable to get home. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. There are many employees who don’t have children who would not be able to extend a trip at such short notice due to other commitments.

The concern is contracting Covid and being stuck, unable to get home
But it's not just Covid that would mean being stuck and not able to fly back. There are other illnesses and injuries that could mean a delay. This should always be considered a possibility.

Lying is very dangerous. What happened if they decide to have another conference in 3 months time? Covid again?

I would suggest that during the conversation you broach the issues of a business risk assessment, what the company insurance will cover up to and including hiring emergency childcare to cover your situation and perhaps also read some of the articles that express concerns about the impact of COVID, remote working and childcare challenges will disproportionally have on women in the short and long terms where women are more likely to bear the brunt of restrictions and their impact on their working lives. If there is a deficit of women at senior levels in your company or if there are positive programmes in place to support women in work.. ask how this fits with this decision .. Good luck with the conversation. Stick to your line.. this is sex based discrimination .. because men are less likely to have responsibility for ensure care for their children.. if all else fails... what about Bob... you can’t expect him to leave his ailing wife.. but dear god I hope it doesn’t come to you having to rely on a male to get your point across..

Maybe contact ‘pregnant then screwed’.. they might have some advice

@vivainsomnia

The concern is contracting Covid and being stuck, unable to get home But it's not just Covid that would mean being stuck and not able to fly back. There are other illnesses and injuries that could mean a delay. This should always be considered a possibility.

Lying is very dangerous. What happened if they decide to have another conference in 3 months time? Covid again?

First para takes us back to the point I tried to make earlier in the thread..

I understand completely that Covid has massively increased the chances of not being to get home from an international trip at the published time ..but there has always been a risk of that happening.

Reasons for that can be extreme (Covid, volcanic ash) but can be more mundane but still lead to 24 hour plus delays; I’m thinking of phenomenon/events such as weather such as bad snow, ( cf. “planes, trains and automobiles), strikes, aircraft breaking down…..

I used to travel internationally a lot in my job and my parting words on leaving home for such a trip were almost always “see you on XXXX if all goes to plan”.

I’m not completely lacking in sympathy with the OP and I think the idea of a convention ATM is a bit odd but as a general a point I don’t think you can expect to be in a job that knowingly involves international travel and also always expect to get home on the published day, or even with just a 24 hour delay.

But @notimagain... the chances of a delay are much greater at this current point in time... and much higher than in July or October last year. This is where the assessment of the risk needs to be applied.

Just had a brief chat with my boss to ask some further questions….

Does to company insurance policy have sufficient cover, for illness, quarantine, home expenses such as emergency interim childcare etc. Answer; I assume so but not sure about childcare, I will ask.

What’s the companies’ position on testing employees before or during the event? Answer: they’re laid back about testing in the US and domestic travellers do not need to test before flying. (Approx 150 US employees from various states will join to conference untested. The 50 international travelers will obviously test prior to departure but could well pick up Covid en route and will not need to retest. Some international teams have a 2-3 day stopover and they’ll no doubt be off sightseeing.

What happens if someone gets Covid and can’t fly home? Answer: There is no need to test prior to flying back to the UK, so you should be fine. (This is obviously an ethical issue and I wouldn’t dream of boarding a plane ill).

Will the event itself be managed differently to before, i.e smaller groups? Answer; I don’t think so but I’ll ask. (They’ll be 200 people in the main conference room each day and then break out sessions that rotate throughout the days/week. We’re encouraged to mix/network which is the main purpose of bringing everyone together).

I’m doing my own mental risk assessment and I can’t help thinking that the low vaccination rates, the lack of testing or mask wearing and the format of the event means some people will inevitably get Covid. It’s all buffet catering during the day, closely backed tables of 10 for dinner in the evening. Lots of hugging, table hopping and then a party on the final night with dancing and drinking. I’m going to wait until he comes back with further answers and then make it clear I’m not going.

@ChateauMargaux

But *@notimagain*... the chances of a delay are much greater at this current point in time... and much higher than in July or October last year. This is where the assessment of the risk needs to be applied.

Err, yes, which is exactly why I made the comment that:

“ I understand completely that Covid has massively increased the chances of not being to get home from an international trip at the published time”

You are right that the risk of not getting home at the time/on the date when your boss promised has changed, but it was always a risk in many jobs.

@vivainsomnia

The concern is contracting Covid and being stuck, unable to get home But it's not just Covid that would mean being stuck and not able to fly back. There are other illnesses and injuries that could mean a delay. This should always be considered a possibility.

Lying is very dangerous. What happened if they decide to have another conference in 3 months time? Covid again?

I know it’s not just Covid but the risk is increased due to the number of cases at the moment and there is a quarantine period. Short delays of a day or 2 may be more manageable than testing positive the day you are due to leave the US! If someone broke their leg, they could fly home with medical assistance. It’s clearly the potential for 10 additional days that’s the concern.

I agree that lying is not the answer but I don’t think the OP has any intention of lying.

That sounds bonkers to me: won't the number of employees who end up off sick as a result mean it's very costly for the company?!

@Bumbleumbo

Just had a brief chat with my boss to ask some further questions….

Does to company insurance policy have sufficient cover, for illness, quarantine, home expenses such as emergency interim childcare etc. Answer; I assume so but not sure about childcare, I will ask.

What’s the companies’ position on testing employees before or during the event? Answer: they’re laid back about testing in the US and domestic travellers do not need to test before flying. (Approx 150 US employees from various states will join to conference untested. The 50 international travelers will obviously test prior to departure but could well pick up Covid en route and will not need to retest. Some international teams have a 2-3 day stopover and they’ll no doubt be off sightseeing.

What happens if someone gets Covid and can’t fly home? Answer: There is no need to test prior to flying back to the UK, so you should be fine. (This is obviously an ethical issue and I wouldn’t dream of boarding a plane ill).

Will the event itself be managed differently to before, i.e smaller groups? Answer; I don’t think so but I’ll ask. (They’ll be 200 people in the main conference room each day and then break out sessions that rotate throughout the days/week. We’re encouraged to mix/network which is the main purpose of bringing everyone together).

I’m doing my own mental risk assessment and I can’t help thinking that the low vaccination rates, the lack of testing or mask wearing and the format of the event means some people will inevitably get Covid. It’s all buffet catering during the day, closely backed tables of 10 for dinner in the evening. Lots of hugging, table hopping and then a party on the final night with dancing and drinking. I’m going to wait until he comes back with further answers and then make it clear I’m not going.

You could just wear a well fitting FFP2 mask during all the sessions and eat elsewhere in your room if you can ? Is no one else on the fence about going ?

What's the purpose of the conference ? Just trying to understand if you'll miss something essential for doing your job.

Is it available online too ? Usually they do hybrid events nowadays.

Absolutely speak to your line of management, it’s madness that a global corporate organisation thinks this is acceptable at the moment.

Oh I see you have, and he doesn’t appear to see much of an issue! Ludicrous.

@Bumbleumbo

Just had a brief chat with my boss to ask some further questions….

Does to company insurance policy have sufficient cover, for illness, quarantine, home expenses such as emergency interim childcare etc. Answer; I assume so but not sure about childcare, I will ask.

What’s the companies’ position on testing employees before or during the event? Answer: they’re laid back about testing in the US and domestic travellers do not need to test before flying. (Approx 150 US employees from various states will join to conference untested. The 50 international travelers will obviously test prior to departure but could well pick up Covid en route and will not need to retest. Some international teams have a 2-3 day stopover and they’ll no doubt be off sightseeing.

What happens if someone gets Covid and can’t fly home? Answer: There is no need to test prior to flying back to the UK, so you should be fine. (This is obviously an ethical issue and I wouldn’t dream of boarding a plane ill).

Will the event itself be managed differently to before, i.e smaller groups? Answer; I don’t think so but I’ll ask. (They’ll be 200 people in the main conference room each day and then break out sessions that rotate throughout the days/week. We’re encouraged to mix/network which is the main purpose of bringing everyone together).

I’m doing my own mental risk assessment and I can’t help thinking that the low vaccination rates, the lack of testing or mask wearing and the format of the event means some people will inevitably get Covid. It’s all buffet catering during the day, closely backed tables of 10 for dinner in the evening. Lots of hugging, table hopping and then a party on the final night with dancing and drinking. I’m going to wait until he comes back with further answers and then make it clear I’m not going.

I guarantee you there are others feeling as you do, but might not be speaking up yet or publicly. It sounds very reasonable to risk assess the situation yourself and come up with the decision to not go (given their ambiguous safety). Good luck speaking to them again.

@WutheringHeights66

Oh I see you have, and he doesn’t appear to see much of an issue! Ludicrous.

And to all those posters who were so aghast at the idea of lying and said don't think the worst of employers, just be straight with them: this is where it gets you. They come back, not always but often, with this kind of 'I'm sure it'll all be fine' vaguery and now OP has no reassurance, plus has flagged up to her boss that she has an issue with travelling without much hope of any support. I really don't take the idea of lying about a Covid test lightly, but this is why people end up taking that route.

I would speak to HR about the difficulties you are facing regarding child care due to you exH ill health. Surely your company has some sort of family care policy.
I would be upfront and honest and offer to attend via Zoom. Don't resign, it's not a dismissable offence under the current circumstances. Let HR try amd push you out if they read this as a breach you could contest it as unfair dismissal.
It quite normal to be concerned about you DC care and the increased risk this conference has regarding C19 and possible issues with returning home.
Your company has a duty of care towards you and cannot pressure you into foreign travel that is non-essential.

If do do go make sure you have confirmation of your employers health cover, medical repatriation, Covid 19 cover etc. I would get a hard copy to travel with too.

Hey I was in this situation recently and offered to switch my working hours and attend remotely. There has to be more than just you and your colleague in this situation or you send someone on your behalf - what would have happened in normal times if you had vacation booked.

That company response is frankly ridiculous.
They are admitting they will be making no effort to provide a covid safe work environment.
Yes local requirements may well be less stringent than what we are accustomed to here but a decent company would have its own internal requirements regarding testing etc. Overall it sounds like a guaranteed plague fest. Out of 200 attendees at least a couple are guaranteed to be positive upon arrival never mind how many by the end of the week.

I think there will be others who are quietly unhappy about the arrangements - or getting it in the neck from their wives every night about them.

I think it will be cancelled but all the very best talking to your boss. It sounds like they are all mad for a trip away and not really being realistic.

I had something similar a few weeks ago, a friend was planning a big party, everyone was going on about how excited they were, but there was no way I could go to it. I was stressing out so much about saying no to it. It was only at the 11th hour when she finally cancelled it herself that everyone said they weren’t going to go anyway!!! It was all for show but nobody wanted to back out first.

Regardless of Covid, you can’t really go as you have no childcare. Things have changed for you.
I definitely think it’s going to be a difficult conversation but it is one that has to happen.

All the best!

Sounds like there are some people keen for a jolly!

What a ridiculous proposal from your organisation. I wouldn’t be going.

You know there was a recent court case in the UK which the employed lost: he was arguing that he had the right to refuse to return to the office because he feared catching covid.

So whatever you, I don't think the law is on your side here.

Just talk to your employer. And don't resign without another job to go to.