Office is still open

[Junesopramo]

My office is still open. Over Christmas I was exposed via a family member and also in the new year.

I don’t think I’m eligible for a PCR and none are available in my area, no symtoms.

We can work from home, we did it for 15 months.

Surely with Boris telling us to close the office, we should close the office? A couple of employees did get covid before Christmas. I don’t believe lateral flows are mandatory. We’ve been asked to buy a certain type of mask and they will reimburse.

Aibu by refusing to go to the office?

@JudgeRindersMinder, I'm sure everyone appreciates the efforts of staff in services like yours that can't be delivered by WFH, and I accept that omicron isn't making people anywhere near as ill as earlier strains of Covid.

But we still have almost 2,000 people a day being admitted to hospitals that are struggling and non-Covid healthcare is really suffering as a result. And we don't yet have any data on omicron and long Covid.

Unless the rate of transmission can be slowed, there's a real risk that essential services will struggle and all our lives will be adversely affected as a result. Locally, we've already seen high levels of rail cancellations and mail deliveries only taking place every 3rd day.

It's in all our interests if those of us who can reduce contact and risk of transmission.

It probably is a productivity issue. Plus it’s work from home if you can.
If the business is struggling because of falling productivity rates, the employer is within their rights to ask for a return to the office.
Granted most would do it in a phased pattern or rota but they don’t have to.
If you are a close contact do your LFD tests each day. I got a PCR as a close contact before Christmas. There was a place to register this as the reason on the form. I didn’t have to isolate until the result as I’m fully vaccinated and (at that time) negative LFD.

Personally I’m getting a bit fed up with people whinging about having to go into an office. There hasn’t been an army of elves over the last two years keeping shops stocked, bins emptied, utilities provided, shopping and Amazon parcels delivered and public transport running. Not to mention healthcare and education functioning. People doing these jobs haven’t had the luxury of being able to wfh.

Get a grip for goodness sake.

@Iheartmysmart

Personally I’m getting a bit fed up with people whinging about having to go into an office. There hasn’t been an army of elves over the last two years keeping shops stocked, bins emptied, utilities provided, shopping and Amazon parcels delivered and public transport running. Not to mention healthcare and education functioning. People doing these jobs haven’t had the luxury of being able to wfh.

Get a grip for goodness sake.

It's not been luxury for me. I've spent nearly 2 years isolated, living alone and worried about my health Yes I'm grateful for those who are enabling me to stay home but shielding hasn't been a barrel of laughs. I'm WFH still because my work is rife with covid and I'm waiting for vaccine 4 It's not that I need to get a grip or think of it as a luxury being able to stay home, it's that I'm genuinely vulnerable

@sjxoxo

I thought the current guidance was to wfh if you can… you say you can and have done successfully so I agree with you that you should be working from home.

I am surprised when I see so many people on these threads saying we should all be back at work even though covid is still circulating & does still pose some risk. I hope those posters are well paid! If you aren’t, imo it’s not worth risking your health/kids health/relatives health for the sake of presenteeism. If you have to do a face to face role that’s different. But just going in to ‘be in’ not really. I don’t get the comparisons of work vs. ‘Hope you’re staying in ag the weekends’ either.. that’s your personal life & your choice. Being forced to sit in close proximity to others if you have reason to feel vulnerable isn’t for your own benefit; it’s for your employers profit. Doing your weekly shop is for your own benefit and even then you have some agency about keeping a distance; not being too long, etc. At work for many people those choices are removed. If you can wfh, you currently should or at least be given the choice. X

But covid is always going to be around, and is always going to pose some risk. The genie is out of the bottle now.

As others have said, the guidance is work from home if you can, so your employer (manager?) should not be putting pressure on you to go in if you don't need to.

But our office is open and if I wanted to go in, I could. Every day if I really wanted to, eg if I had to perch on the end of a bed to work or lived alone and was lonely. And obviously for business reasons like a meeting that needed to be face to face or would be better face to face like an appraisal.

I disagree that WFH is bad for the economy or turns us into an insular society. If I work from home, I have more time to go out and spend money locally, and I have more time to take part in hobbies where I meet people and socialise.

The care sector is being badly affected by this wave

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/05/90-care-home-operators-in-england-declare-red-alert-over-staffing-covid

YABU.

The 'guidance', not law is to WFH 'if you can'. Everyone on MN thinks they are so incredibly 'productive' WFH, but their employers and clients often disagree.

And when you drip feed the fact that you are in fact WFH, what do you mean about 'refusing' to go to the office? Seems to me you are whining for the sake of it.

@Iheartmysmart

Personally I’m getting a bit fed up with people whinging about having to go into an office. There hasn’t been an army of elves over the last two years keeping shops stocked, bins emptied, utilities provided, shopping and Amazon parcels delivered and public transport running. Not to mention healthcare and education functioning. People doing these jobs haven’t had the luxury of being able to wfh.

Get a grip for goodness sake.

Personally I'm sick of people whinging about those having or needing to WFH as if that is some kind of luxury nirvana for all homeworkers.

It isn't a race to the bottom. People WFH during the lockdowns were keeping infection rates down and reducing risk to essential work and services who couldn't WFH. They were home schooling alongside work quite often or home working in cramped conditions, not garden offices.

Lets stop pretending that all workers on site had a terrible time and all WFH were in clover - the reality was far more varied and nuanced than that.

As for covid being around - yes it is. But there is a very different risk profile in different activities.

Going for a run in a small group - virtually nothing

Going to do parkrun - a bit more

Going to a busy supermarket where everyone is wearing masks - a bit more again.

Getting on a busy commuter train where half the passengers appear to be "exempt" and there are no opening windows - fairly high.

@Katemum

Civil servants with laptops that have worked from home previously and could easily continue to work from home are in the office every day so even Boris isn’t following his advice.

That depends

Being able to work from home/remotely does not purely lie on the mobility of a laptop.

I have been into my office building a handfull of times since lockdown 1 began (or slightly before actually as I had been doing other things) but into my office floorplate only twice.
(And on those two occasions I

Even though we had switched to laptops about a year before, have hot-desking and were encouraged to work remotely when suitable I preferred to be in office
I could work with my direct colleague/LM - even if we were heads down on specific tasks, I was adjacent to a team which we give most support to, and also could pickup the general office buzz of what’s going on
We also support departments across the site occasionaly across the country. For those across the site a lot of time was spent walking back and forth to peoples desks, informal & formal meetings etc
However most of our interaction is with a team 3 hours away

Working from home, my LM & I schedule contact every other day, but talk pretty much every day anyway
The adjacent team are now mostly out of the office, they are military and live on site or nearby - even when in office they come in for specific times to interact/brief etc then leave
The remote teams are still remote - and often WFH - we have actually increased the amount of time that we interact via WFH

We’ve lost the ‘buzz’ but going in office doesn’t bring back the buzz as people come in when necessary

Within our team our current intention is to continue WFH, but in a hybrid manner with some time in office.
We have not yet worked out what a good balance will be - to align with other teams so we get the best out of being in, to not go in just for the sake of going in - and especially to not have a fixed day of going in that may not fit such as going in on Wednesdays, but remotely covering a meeting on Tuesday.

On a personal note I do something on Tuesday evenings, so I would schedule to leave early (and sometimes would be in the middle of something so stay and then rush)
I also both dislike Friday afternoons and also do quite a few weekend things where I may travel or prepare on the Friday
So now remotely - on Tuesdays I save travel time so put more hours in rather than catch up on other days, and for my Fridays instead of a full commute and getting twitchy to leave early I can work longer by putting my commute time into working time, and also if my weekend commitment affects the afternoon I can work a morning rather than take a days leave

I can also continue to work afterwards - for example I had a meeting and needed to travel, I did the meeting, shut my laptop straight away then at the hotel logged back on to do the follow ups

[quote LakieLady]@JudgeRindersMinder, I'm sure everyone appreciates the efforts of staff in services like yours that can't be delivered by WFH, and I accept that omicron isn't making people anywhere near as ill as earlier strains of Covid.

But we still have almost 2,000 people a day being admitted to hospitals that are struggling and non-Covid healthcare is really suffering as a result. And we don't yet have any data on omicron and long Covid.

Unless the rate of transmission can be slowed, there's a real risk that essential services will struggle and all our lives will be adversely affected as a result. Locally, we've already seen high levels of rail cancellations and mail deliveries only taking place every 3rd day.

It's in all our interests if those of us who can reduce contact and risk of transmission.[/quote]
I hear you, but the real issue to services is that they are already crippled by people self isolating unnecessarily. NHS staff who are living with a positive case do not self isolate, negative pcr and daily lateral flows and they return to work rather than isolating. More harm is being done by the country coming to a stop than by the disease itself.
I say this having lost my father to covid last year

Civil servants with laptops that have worked from home previously and could easily continue to work from home are in the office every day so even Boris isn’t following his advice.

Not talking about Boris or senior CS, but most CS aren’t paid very much. Many below national average. So they won’t necessarily have a good wfh set up. Lots were working from kitchen tables (whilst having children at home, as most not classed as key workers in lockdown one, but couldn’t be furloughed ) so really do need to go in.

The guidance is work from home if you can and it is the last bit that means offices need to stay open. Not everyone has the space or equipment to work at home productively so need access to an office to do their job.

Well if you lived in Wales it would be illegal for you to go to your office if you could work from home and if you get caught you can get fined £60 and your employer fined £1000. So if you don't want to go to the office move to Wales.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Civil servants with laptops that have worked from home previously and could easily continue to work from home are in the office every day so even Boris isn’t following his advice.

Not talking about Boris or senior CS, but most CS aren’t paid very much. Many below national average. So they won’t necessarily have a good wfh set up. Lots were working from kitchen tables (whilst having children at home, as most not classed as key workers in lockdown one, but couldn’t be furloughed ) so really do need to go in.

Quite. The frontline UKHSA staff handling the calls reporting outbreaks from care homes and other settings are on c. £20k but are still civil servants. And in my DSD’s region they’re working to a hybrid model with a rota split between WFH and office, except for anyone whose home environment precludes WFH.

(I should add that call handling is far from all they do, but it’s all they have time to do at the moment during this omicron surge.)

🙄

@Tealightsandd

Long-term permanent WFH would be devastating for the economy, create an unhealthy insular society, and lock millions out of certain jobs (which would only be possible for those privileged enough to have a suitable work from home environment).

However, temporarily thanks to the lack of sensible easy infection control mitigations (mask, vaccine passes, good ventilation such as HEPA filters) I can understand your reticence OP. Particularly if you have a vulnerable family member.

In the immediate short-term ideally employers would be offering flexibility for vulnerable staff and those with bad health anxiety.

It's good though that they're not closed. Not everybody lives in decent housing. Far too many don't. There's actually an increasing number of working people being made homeless. There will likely also be staff who need to go in to the office for mental health reasons.

Rubbish. You're deliberately missing the very obvious point, WFH could be an option on a long-term basis. People who can't work from home or don't want to could still be allowed to go into the office. Many businesses could operate with smaller premises, a portion of permanent on-site staff if they need or want to be there, plus some hot-desks and meeting rooms for staff who will come in from time to time.

My job has been 100% work from home since March 2020 but will only be 40% WFH once the restrictions are eased. Realistically I could do 90%, maybe 95% of my work from home. There would be a few things where meeting face to face is better, but in my role they're very much a minority.

Using myself as an example, I fail to see how me WFH would "devastate" the economy. OK, the bus company aren't getting my £20 a week, and maybe I buy a pair of shoes less per year, but I'm still buying food and clothes even if I'm WFH. My money is perhaps spent with different retailers, but it's still being spent. WFH isn't a massive money-saving exercise for me personally because I never went to coffee shops or bought overpriced pre-packed sandwiches anyway.

My WFH setup isn't ideal, a folding table by the window. But working in the office wasn't ideal either. Here at least I can control the temperature a little better and can turn the light on or off as necessary.

Where a job can be done remotely (or part of it done remotely) that should be an option for the person. Not an obligation, but a choice.

@MorningStarling
One person spending £20 less each week probably won't have too much effect on the bus company. But what it 10 people, or 100 people or more, are no longer paying that amount? There comes a point where the bus company cannot justify the cost of a driver, so he/she loses their job. What happens when a route becomes financially unviable and it is withdrawn, leaving some people, often elderly, with no easily accessible public transport?
It isn't just about spending the same amount of money overall, it matters where it is spent. Small cafes and coffee shops often rely on local businesses for their custom - if people are working from home, those businesses are at risk. I'm sure there are many other businesses that will suffer as a result of changes in spending habits and that could have a massive knock-on effect on the economy.

Maybe your job would be more efficient and effective with some office presence. Are others there ft or limited days? You do not have an automatic right to wfh.

The businesses at risk is sad but others will replace them and the people will find other jobs. The economy has always changed and you can't preserve things in aspic. I've lost my job several times in my career and it's devastating at the time but you pick yourself up and find another one.

The bus routes - well that is more of an issue but you can't tell people they have to go into an office unnecessarily to keep a bus route alive. In any case, the elderly usually go in after 9.30 on their bus passes so commuters won't help them anyway.

I'm sorry but people are now just wanting to work from home for any old reason in my opinion.

We HAD to wfh during lockdowns when Boris made it a mandatory rule. It was a mandatory rule because there were no vaccinations against covid.

People have now been vaccinated against covid so there is absolutely no mandatory requirement for any employer to bring in wfh.

Covid is not going to go away. We must learn to get on with it, get vaccinated and move forwards. We cannot keep on going in and out of lockdown as a vaccinated population.

It might not be the case with you OP but it really seems some people just want to wfh full time now.

Anybody who refuses to go into the workplace would be unreasonable. By all means have a conversation with your line manager about what measures are in place or the possibility of working from home.

However, during this entire thing the one area which has absolutely failed has been customer service from call centres. Its been absolutely dire. So I wholly understand your employer deciding enough is enough.

For those who work in individual roles, work from home can work a lot better. I can work from home or go into the office, but majority of my work is carried out via Teams and Sharepoint as I work primarily with people in other countries. I choose to go into the office on days I don't have meetings scheduled so I have a change of scenery, socialise a bit and have a nice lunch.

Im amazed offices are still open, i would demand to work from home !