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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Office is still open

124 replies

Junesopramo · 04/01/2022 23:17

My office is still open. Over Christmas I was exposed via a family member and also in the new year.

I don’t think I’m eligible for a PCR and none are available in my area, no symtoms.

We can work from home, we did it for 15 months.

Surely with Boris telling us to close the office, we should close the office? A couple of employees did get covid before Christmas. I don’t believe lateral flows are mandatory. We’ve been asked to buy a certain type of mask and they will reimburse.

Aibu by refusing to go to the office?

OP posts:
phishy · 04/01/2022 23:52

Don’t you have any lateral flow tests?

It’s really not difficult! (If you have the tests).

I ordered some yesterday morning and received them today, but I know there are supply issues.

betwixtlives · 04/01/2022 23:56

@Menmy3

I think most companies sack you for not going to work 🤣
Right?! The mind boggles
Lalliella · 04/01/2022 23:56

Under Plan B everyone is supposed to wfh if they can. Your employer is in breach of this. I believe that legally you can refuse to go into the office.

jacks11 · 04/01/2022 23:57

YABU

I have to say that I am a bit puzzled by this- no, you as an employee can not unilaterally decide to work from home without your employers agreement. You can ask about it/try to negotiate, but you can’t just decide not to without consequences.

If your employers have requested you attend work in person, then you need to either go to work as requested, self-certificate as medically unfit to work (if applicable) and thereafter provide medical certificates as appropriate (again if applicable) or accept the consequences of not attending your workplace to undertake your employment. I imagine that would involve a disciplinary process which may end up in you losing your job. Or you could either resign and look for an alternative job which is fully wfh or resign once/if you secure that post.

The “work from home if you can” is guidance, not legislation. This is not a full lockdown with hard and fast rules, as before. If your employer feels staff need to be at work to do their jobs properly, then I think you should attend (unless there is a specific, very good reason why not- ‘I don’t want to/I’m a bit worried” is not really in that category
The only way you could, perhaps, get round it is if your workplace is in breach of health and safety rules (not rules you would like/think are right, they would need to be breaching regulations).

It might be worth contacting your line manager to see if there is some flexibility on wfh (perhaps being able to work from home part-time, for instance). You may be turned down, but it could be worthwhile asking.

I am a bit fed up of being told that people do “just as well” when wfh, that it is just as efficient etc. From a client and customer POV, I am afraid it isn’t always the case. I was told that wfh was just as efficient and sometimes even more productive by an acquaintance who works for a firm that we deal with, for instance- it might Be true for her individual role (I have my doubts) but it is simply not true from the overall experience we have had as clients (errors, delays, more complex things are taking far longer to sort out than they used to, for example). We are going to be looking elsewhere. Of course, it may well be working well for some companies (for now at least) and if that is the case- great- and I imagine that they will carry on doing so (at least part-time wfh, for instance). But it may be that your employer feels being in the office is better for good reasons. You won’t know if you don’t ask.

Junesopramo · 05/01/2022 00:02

@phishy

Don’t you have any lateral flow tests?

It’s really not difficult! (If you have the tests).

I ordered some yesterday morning and received them today, but I know there are supply issues.

Family member didn’t show up on lateral flows and also it’s not Mandatory for people in the office to do them.
OP posts:
Junesopramo · 05/01/2022 00:02

@jacks11

YABU

I have to say that I am a bit puzzled by this- no, you as an employee can not unilaterally decide to work from home without your employers agreement. You can ask about it/try to negotiate, but you can’t just decide not to without consequences.

If your employers have requested you attend work in person, then you need to either go to work as requested, self-certificate as medically unfit to work (if applicable) and thereafter provide medical certificates as appropriate (again if applicable) or accept the consequences of not attending your workplace to undertake your employment. I imagine that would involve a disciplinary process which may end up in you losing your job. Or you could either resign and look for an alternative job which is fully wfh or resign once/if you secure that post.

The “work from home if you can” is guidance, not legislation. This is not a full lockdown with hard and fast rules, as before. If your employer feels staff need to be at work to do their jobs properly, then I think you should attend (unless there is a specific, very good reason why not- ‘I don’t want to/I’m a bit worried” is not really in that category
The only way you could, perhaps, get round it is if your workplace is in breach of health and safety rules (not rules you would like/think are right, they would need to be breaching regulations).

It might be worth contacting your line manager to see if there is some flexibility on wfh (perhaps being able to work from home part-time, for instance). You may be turned down, but it could be worthwhile asking.

I am a bit fed up of being told that people do “just as well” when wfh, that it is just as efficient etc. From a client and customer POV, I am afraid it isn’t always the case. I was told that wfh was just as efficient and sometimes even more productive by an acquaintance who works for a firm that we deal with, for instance- it might Be true for her individual role (I have my doubts) but it is simply not true from the overall experience we have had as clients (errors, delays, more complex things are taking far longer to sort out than they used to, for example). We are going to be looking elsewhere. Of course, it may well be working well for some companies (for now at least) and if that is the case- great- and I imagine that they will carry on doing so (at least part-time wfh, for instance). But it may be that your employer feels being in the office is better for good reasons. You won’t know if you don’t ask.

Yeah they said it’s fine. They have said they are happy with people working from home but it would be reviewed etc.

I asked if I was being unreasonable, not
My company.

OP posts:
Junesopramo · 05/01/2022 00:04

@DorothyZbornakIsAQueen

We are also expected back in the office. As long as all guidance is followed, I don't see the issue. We need to risk assess and get back to some kind of normal now.

LFTs aren't 'mandatory' in our work either, but surely if you're as anxious about it as you OP, you would do one anyway?

If you stick to sensible social distancing rules, hand cleaning etc, mask wearing when necessary etc., what's the issue?

Because it’s airborne. I work in an office, we talk (call centre) sneeze, breathe.

The guidance is to work from home…?

OP posts:
sjxoxo · 05/01/2022 00:04

I thought the current guidance was to wfh if you can… you say you can and have done successfully so I agree with you that you should be working from home.

I am surprised when I see so many people on these threads saying we should all be back at work even though covid is still circulating & does still pose some risk. I hope those posters are well paid! If you aren’t, imo it’s not worth risking your health/kids health/relatives health for the sake of presenteeism. If you have to do a face to face role that’s different. But just going in to ‘be in’ not really. I don’t get the comparisons of work vs. ‘Hope you’re staying in ag the weekends’ either.. that’s your personal life & your choice. Being forced to sit in close proximity to others if you have reason to feel vulnerable isn’t for your own benefit; it’s for your employers profit. Doing your weekly shop is for your own benefit and even then you have some agency about keeping a distance; not being too long, etc. At work for many people those choices are removed. If you can wfh, you currently should or at least be given the choice. X

Comefromaway · 05/01/2022 00:05

@Lalliella

Under Plan B everyone is supposed to wfh if they can. Your employer is in breach of this. I believe that legally you can refuse to go into the office.
That is not correct.
needmoreshinys · 05/01/2022 00:10

At least one person has just lost an unfair dismissal on this, if your work wants you in, then you have to go in.

Junesopramo · 05/01/2022 00:13

@sjxoxo

I thought the current guidance was to wfh if you can… you say you can and have done successfully so I agree with you that you should be working from home.

I am surprised when I see so many people on these threads saying we should all be back at work even though covid is still circulating & does still pose some risk. I hope those posters are well paid! If you aren’t, imo it’s not worth risking your health/kids health/relatives health for the sake of presenteeism. If you have to do a face to face role that’s different. But just going in to ‘be in’ not really. I don’t get the comparisons of work vs. ‘Hope you’re staying in ag the weekends’ either.. that’s your personal life & your choice. Being forced to sit in close proximity to others if you have reason to feel vulnerable isn’t for your own benefit; it’s for your employers profit. Doing your weekly shop is for your own benefit and even then you have some agency about keeping a distance; not being too long, etc. At work for many people those choices are removed. If you can wfh, you currently should or at least be given the choice. X

Yep and senior management aren’t in the office… surprise surprise
OP posts:
Junesopramo · 05/01/2022 00:23

@needmoreshinys

At least one person has just lost an unfair dismissal on this, if your work wants you in, then you have to go in.
Link Please
OP posts:
needmoreshinys · 05/01/2022 00:30

thenegotiator.co.uk/countrywide-employee-loses-covid-return-to-work-unfair-dismissal-case/

That is one, there is another one, where there was a higher chance of the defendent winning if he had been there more than 2 years, I think he was just short of it, I am sure there is also one with a woman as the defendent

ilovesooty · 05/01/2022 00:31

You could try googling it yourself. I remember reading about that case and the verdict.

Comefromaway · 05/01/2022 00:31

Accatis v Fortuna Group

Rodgers v Leeds Laser Cutting

ilovesooty · 05/01/2022 00:31

Sorry, cross post.

EasterIssland · 05/01/2022 00:36

It’s only advisory so if your work think you’ve to go then you have to go

My office is still opened. Most of us will wfh but those that feel wfh is not for them can still go. Or If there is an important meeting they might be requested to go.

needmoreshinys · 05/01/2022 00:36

And there is going to be more filtering down as well, the one I remember, which I am sure had a woman defendent, was the first one, since then there have been a good few more, but some are related to masks as well, so not exactly what you are saying

Tealightsandd · 05/01/2022 00:37

@Junesopramo

I think they can be fitted to be part of the air con but you can also get separate ones. Some are expensive but there's also a DIY version that you can make yourself - the corsi-rosenthal box.

Filters won't eliminate all risk but, like seat belts reduce car accident risks, they help reduce it.

www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211011/hepa-filters-may-clean-coronavirus-particles-from-air-study

Junesopramo · 05/01/2022 00:46

@Comefromaway

Accatis v Fortuna Group

Rodgers v Leeds Laser Cutting

Accatis v Fortuna Group - asked to be furloughed and couldn’t work from home as not all software was available.

Rodgers v Leeds Laser Cutting - unable to work from home and simply didn’t turn up.

Me - working from home for 16 months or something… wants to work from home as been exposed recently and doesn’t feel
Safe in the office. 1:2 collaboration aren’t rostered to work in the office (week on and of).

OP posts:
Junesopramo · 05/01/2022 00:46

I’m working from home… doing my job.
Just think it’s safer to be home at the moment.

OP posts:
monkeysox · 05/01/2022 07:12

This is making me scared for returning to 900 students in secondary school today.

Can't work from home. Madness
Even if students from class get it we just have to crack on!

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 05/01/2022 07:18

@monkeysox

Yup! Yesterday was already around 6 staff who then got a positive LFT then went home… as they didn’t have any LFT before coming back to school.

These threads pain me as so many people support others not wanting to go to an office and yet expect school staff to crack on as normal

Stevenage689 · 05/01/2022 07:20

What a weird post. You're allowed to work from home and are going to work from home. Of course you're not being unreasonable.

Your employer is keeping the office open for those unable to work from home. They are allowed to do so. Of course they're not being unreasonable.

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