New recruit pregnant before job starting

[FlimFlamJimJams]

I've started a new business, it'll open to the public around April time.
It's a very small, community focused business with only 4 staff members initially.
I recruited all the staff within the last few weeks and are finalising contracts. Everyone has formal job offers, no one yet has a job contract.

The roles require training on the job resulting in a nationally recognised qualification, probably achieved within 12 months or so. The business is paying for this.

I have had meetings with everyone individually this week to go through bits and bobs, start dates etc - and at the end of a meeting with one lady yesterday, she tells me that she's 12 weeks pregnant and anticipates starting her Maternity leave around mid-July. She said she found out at 5 weeks - so she'd have known she was pregnant at interview.

I'm now stuck in a difficult position - the business is already going to struggle financially for the first few years (it's not quite a non-profit, but it's close) and I'm now facing having to extend someone's training at least 6 months past everyone else's as well as find temporary cover, which is expensive. She may well choose not to return after her maternity. I turned down other applicants who applied after her job offer was made.

I guess there isn't a AIBU, because I'm not going to do anything, but I feel really deceived and a bit stressed about the whole thing.
I know everyone is entitled to get pregnant etc. But I wasn't anticipating someone going on ML before they'd even qualified, or finished their probation.

@BoredZelda

Isn’t it remarkable haw many times this appears to happen, and yet I’ve only ever read about it on Mumsnet.

I was applying for jobs when I knew I was pregnant and I didn't tell anyone.

I was on furlough last year and was being made redundant. I was 6/7 weeks and unfortunately miscarried - so I'm glad I'd kept it to myself.

I started a new job in august and found out I was pregnant in December - when I'd just been given a promotion.
I told my boss at 12 weeks and he was super supportive.

Like OP says - if they'd have known before
I miscarried that I was pregnant I probably wouldn't have got the job, which in hindsight would've been a big loss for them and me because my new role developed really quickly and was a mutual benefit.

Only on MUMSnet, should mothers consider business needs before their own and not take a job at a small company incase the business owner doesn't have his finances prioritised enough to accommodate that staff may have personal lives outside of working. Brilliant.

@bcc89

Only on MUMSnet, should mothers consider business needs before their own and not take a job at a small company incase the business owner doesn't have his finances prioritised enough to accommodate that staff may have personal lives outside of working. Brilliant.

Only on mumsnet should small startups assume that their staff will work at 50% efficiency because parents want to take the high incentive salary offered for such risky roles and then behave as if it’s a fortune 100 company or a public sector role. Normal people take roles in startups because they are enthusiastic about dedicating themselves to building a business from the ground up. Only on mumsnet would parents feel entitled to get all the benefits but none of the disadvantages of a startup. I’m sure the employee of the Ops will be delighted when she, and others, lose their jobs when the startup fails. As most startups do.

Honestly, the lack of common sense here is astonishing. But don’t let that stop you fighting the capitalist oppressors!

But when is a good time for a female employee to have maternity leave then? The last thread especially was very much we have to give up projects now etc. One year after being there, two, three? Intrigued what benefits there are to a start up though.

@Pugroll

But when is a good time for a female employee to have maternity leave then? The last thread especially was very much we have to give up projects now etc. One year after being there, two, three? Intrigued what benefits there are to a start up though.

The benefit of a startup is that they often have to pay higher salaries to attract good candidates because they are unstable. So if you are pregnant it’s a great way to get higher maternity pay while concurrently increasing the chances of all your new colleagues, and you, becoming unemployed.

But screw the business owners for all you can. Because you is entitled, innit?!

No objections to pregnant women and expectant fathers joining stable firms and taking maternity or paternity leave in the first year. But to do it to a startup is immoral and unethical and anyone who elects to do that deserves the redundancy that will likely follow.

But if someone is pregnant when starting the role they'll unlikely be eligible for any sort of enhanced maternity pay, so I don't get the higher wages argument really. Unless the start up hasn't covered themselves and hasnt written an effective contract I suppose, most places require you to have been working for x amount of time before your due date which is more than reasonable.

@Pugroll

But if someone is pregnant when starting the role they'll unlikely be eligible for any sort of enhanced maternity pay, so I don't get the higher wages argument really. Unless the start up hasn't covered themselves and hasnt written an effective contract I suppose, most places require you to have been working for x amount of time before your due date which is more than reasonable.

In this case, all new staff need expensive training to be effective and income generating. Given how long it takes to train one person, it’s clear that they won’t be able to train a mat leave cover person in the time available such that the cover person will be effective and income generating. At best the 18 year old is young and naive - I would hope nobody with any sense and experience would do the same. Outside of mumsnet anyway.

And in my workplace, enhanced mat leave is payable from day 1

@Abigail12345654321

And in my workplace, enhanced mat leave is payable from day 1

More fool them then, I'd hazard a guess a 'business' that will seemingly crumble if someone takes mat leave won't be throwing out enhanced terms.

Yabu, this is the cost.of being an employer. Any of your other staff could just choose to leave at any point for any reason or fall ill

One bonus of someone going on ml and taking on a ftc temp person is that if your business takes.off for example or other staff leave then you may have the option to retain the temp permanently and they are already trained then, I have seen this happen elsewhere v successfully.

OP, if you thought this employee was right for your business she still will be after her maternity leave and if you treat her well will more than likely come back more enthusiastic than ever and become a huge asset. People leave roles for all kinds of reasons and as a small business these are issues that need to be dealt with (I say this as having built a small business up myself over the last few years with several mat. leaves). Maternity leave is short in the grand scheme of things and if she was the best person for the job then having a baby doesn't change that. You could have hired someone who left after three months because they got a better offer, or because of injury or illness. It happens a lot.

In my experience (I'd love someone to do a proper study on this), men are quite likely to leave their jobs altogether when they start a family. They often feel the pressure of being main breadwinner and look elsewhere. Happened with every single one of DH's friends (including DH) and it was the first reason someone quit our company - because his partner had had a baby and he got a better paying job.

And yet men don't seem to receive this same prejudice and blame for daring to take a job when they may not fully commit to it for years! Treat her with respect and within the law and focus on mitigation plans that will make your business more resilient.

I plan on getting pregnant next year and I’m currently applying for jobs. No way am I applying for start ups. It’s just not fair.

It’s shitty when people do this, especially when they knowingly do it to small businesses.

What, pursue careers and children? Are women supposed to just pause all career development for a couple of years? What about women who have repeat miscarriages and no idea whether their five-week pregnancy will make it to term? If a small business isn’t viable if it employs pregnant women, it isn’t viable.

None of this is the fault or problem of the business though. What will inevitably happen is that the cover employee will end up in the position where they're more knowledgeable/effective in the job than the person they're supposed to be covering. At this point, it's detrimental to the business to get rid of them and bring in somebody who needs training up.

I plan on getting pregnant next year and I’m currently applying for jobs. No way am I applying for start ups. It’s just not fair.

This would be my view.

I used to work for a big FM provider and remember one new staff member going on two consecutive ML after starting. By the two year point she'd not even managed a project yet and the company were paying hundreds a month for her lease BMW which she was driving the whole time, and also the subscriptions/licenses they maintained for her role. A small company would've been seriously out of pocket.

@CoverYourselfInChocolateGlory

You make a good point. Men with young children do tend to bounce around between jobs more. Just realised all the men in my team are either gay/unmarried or are over 50. Maybe I’ve been unconsciously avoiding that demographic! Have only ever had one new father in the team and he was a total PITA; I was flexible and allowed him 6 months paternity leave and when he came back he was barely functioning and asking endlessly for ‘emergency’ parental leave, ‘working from home’ days (openly saying it’s so he could take care of the baby so his wife could go out for the day(!)), unpaid leave for extended periods so they could have extra holidays ‘as a family’ and so on. And when he did work, it was terrible. He had been fine before. In the end I had to take him down a formal competency route because he seemed determined to do no work. In a meeting with HR he said it was unfair to expect his work to be of good quality when he had a young child at home disturbing his sleep - the child was two years old by then. Thankfully we got him out of the organisation. The sense of entitlement was staggering.

Even though a contract hasn't been issued the offer is legally binding and if you withdraw it due to her pregnancy you'll be at risk of a valid discrimination claim, it sucks for her to have done that though. You won't have to pay her maternity pay though as she won't qualify. She can apply for maternity allowance.

She can't do the job she's being hired for and on those grounds I'd retract the offer if I was able to do so legally in the country where you operate. So far as I'm concerned it's fraudulent to accept a job offer when you know you can't do the job.
She has a right to get pregnant but I don't see it as her right to massively screw over a brand new employer because of it. It's not like she's worked for you for some time and has a proven value.

[quote mydogisthebest]**@ShirleyPhallus half the population DO NOT need to keep having babies. The world is very badly overpopulated and people should use their brains and have less or even none

This woman is 18 so could very well go on to have goodness knows how many more. One of my neighbours had her first at 18 and is now expecting her 5th![/quote]
It’s a woman’s right to have a child. Don’t tell me otherwise.

And yet men don't seem to receive this same prejudice and blame for daring to take a job when they may not fully commit to it for years!

I'd have thought that most blokes who take the risk of leaving a stable job to chase the money would be inclined to want to make it work. If they don't then they risk being worse off than before, because they can be sacked at short notice unlike the pregnant woman.

But it's an interesting discussion because the common view on here seems to be that the man gets to have his cake and eat it in terms of not having to interrupt his career, but what I often see in the real world is stressed out men trying to provide for the whole family and partners who often never return to full time work. You see plenty of posts on here from mums who don't want to go back.

Obviously every situation is different though.

It’s a woman’s right to have a child. Don’t tell me otherwise.

A woman's right but nobody else's problem. Aside from maybe the husband.

[quote Abigail12345654321]@CoverYourselfInChocolateGlory

You make a good point. Men with young children do tend to bounce around between jobs more. Just realised all the men in my team are either gay/unmarried or are over 50. Maybe I’ve been unconsciously avoiding that demographic! Have only ever had one new father in the team and he was a total PITA; I was flexible and allowed him 6 months paternity leave and when he came back he was barely functioning and asking endlessly for ‘emergency’ parental leave, ‘working from home’ days (openly saying it’s so he could take care of the baby so his wife could go out for the day(!)), unpaid leave for extended periods so they could have extra holidays ‘as a family’ and so on. And when he did work, it was terrible. He had been fine before. In the end I had to take him down a formal competency route because he seemed determined to do no work. In a meeting with HR he said it was unfair to expect his work to be of good quality when he had a young child at home disturbing his sleep - the child was two years old by then. Thankfully we got him out of the organisation. The sense of entitlement was staggering.[/quote]
Ah you feel all parents are entitled, makes sense now. Some salt for that chip on your shoulder? Some people are crap at their jobs for all sorts of reasons.

in my workplace, enhanced mat leave is payable from day 1

Frankly they must be mad. I'm not suggesting for an instant that all pregnant women are out to take the piss, but that's a perfect way of attracting those who are

I would withdraw the offer if i could. I know women can get pregnant whenever they want, but it is a shitty thing to do to a small new business.

Agree with this. You are a small business not a huge corporation that can easily absorb the costs. The impact on your business will very much affect everyone else. Absolutely shitty of her to do. Seek proper legal advise as to what you can do. If you were a big company my response would be very different, but I think in this case I would look to find a way to retract this.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

in my workplace, enhanced mat leave is payable from day 1

Frankly they must be mad. I'm not suggesting for an instant that all pregnant women are out to take the piss, but that's a perfect way of attracting those who are

I agree - not my decision though!

Have you spoken to the training provider as you mention assessors etc they will probably have a policy in place for things like this. I know when I was teaching/assessing we had breaks in learning for things like this so have a chat with them they might be able to do that and therefore save some of the money in training costs