To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

Enjoying @HopeMumsnet mentioning 'differences of opinion over what's correct in law'. Erm, no. The law is the law. Opinion doesn't come into it.

The SEN notional undying has NOTHING to,do with the number of children with additional needs. It is calculated by a formula based on
Prior attainment
EAL
IDAC
FSM and
Mobility measures.
These are pretty consistent across different LAs, although the importance given to each element can vary depending on the LA. This figure is then added to the AWPU to calculate the total school funding.

The reason that SEN numbers or percentages are not used in the funding calculation is that SEN is viewed as a " subjective " measure, the rest are absolutes and so seen as impartial.
The £6000 mentioned frequently is actually roughly the difference between the base level funding of mainstream and special schools. So mainstream schools get ( roughly) £4000 per pupil and special schools roughly £10, 000.

@spanieleyes

The SEN notional undying has NOTHING to,do with the number of children with additional needs. It is calculated by a formula based on Prior attainment EAL IDAC FSM and Mobility measures. These are pretty consistent across different LAs, although the importance given to each element can vary depending on the LA. This figure is then added to the AWPU to calculate the total school funding.

The reason that SEN numbers or percentages are not used in the funding calculation is that SEN is viewed as a " subjective " measure, the rest are absolutes and so seen as impartial.
The £6000 mentioned frequently is actually roughly the difference between the base level funding of mainstream and special schools. So mainstream schools get ( roughly) £4000 per pupil and special schools roughly £10, 000.

The whole reason the £6000 thing was brought in was to deter schools from applying for an EHCP in the hope of money. Lots of EHCPs are issued with no funding whatsoever.

People don't realise, also, that special schools don't get funding for the children who are actually there at the time. It's all back-stepped, so if they have lots of children with high needs, they get more money some time later, but if they had lots of children with lower needs, then suddenly get an influx of high-needs children, they still have to provide for them using their existing budget until the next needs audit.

@StationaryMagpie Shit. My child has ASD and though not at the EHCP stage yet, now I'm scared. I def don't have the personality or confidence to fight like that with my child's school :( The teacher & headteacher are incredibly intimidating and I suffer major anxiety. They do NOT take well to any form of criticism; be in constructive or otherwise!

Shit

@Lougle

Mainstream has the same funding problem. I am receiving funding for children who have already left school but not receiving funding for children who have recently been awarded an EHCP or joined us with one. If I have fewer year 6 children with EHCPs leaving school than I do new ones awarded or Reception children joining, I am running a deficit until the next funding allocation is made!

When DS transitioned from primary to secondary they had to apply for extra money to fund the transition stuff and whatever as all the money for that year had been allocated to the primary school. (I can’t remember the full details but I know they had to fight to get it sorted)

There are slightly conflated issues on here as well.

1. Many LAs want schools to justify they have spent £6k before agreeing to do a statutory.

1. In nearly all cases, schools DO have to find the first £6000 for every child with an EHC plan.

1. The school’s notional SEN budget does not allow for £6000 for every child (SEN Support or EHCP) in the school. This notional budget is a set amount for your school (decided on a formula as @spanieleyes outlined above) and even if you had 10 new children with additional needs join the school, it wouldn’t increase. This is where things get very difficult with school budgets.

Well DD2 was an absolute mess this morning. Cried non-stop (literally) from 06.30 to 08.30. I took her into the school (she normally walks from a couple of roads away with some friends) and asked to speak to her DHOY. She was nice enough, but we had to wait 20 minutes to speak to her because she was on duty.

She eventually offered the choice of going to school or going home, but if she went home she wouldn't be allowed to do online learning. She offered a little 'calm down' time in the pupil centre, then when DD2 said that wouldn't work, she offered to let her spend the day in 'R&R'. So she went to tutor briefly, to do her lateral flow test, then went to the 'R&R' room and studied remotely. DD2 said that the R&R room was much better, so that's good to know.

I've filled in the schools SAR form today and I'll take that along with my ID before I go to the meeting. I've done a 2 page document, outlining what her issues with school are, what's been tried, what happened as a result and any ideas we have for improvement; issues with learning; things already in place; and things previous schools have done successfully. I've added a paragraph at the top that says that DD2 got 110 on her English SATs, so is capable with the right support, but she isn't getting it. I've also said she's on the brink of full school refusal.

Hopefully, that will be a guide to discussions.

If you read Section 3 of paragraph 11 of the School and Early Years ( Finance) England Regulation ( it's statutory instrument 59 of 2021) it states that
" such amount should be calculated using a sum of £6000 as the threshold below which the school will be expected to meet the additional costs of pupils with special,educational needs from its budget share"

So ,yes, schools are expected to fund the first £6000 of provision even if the SEN notional funding they receive is nowhere near sufficient for that!

@Lougle Get dd to sign something to say that she gives her permission for you to see data when you take the ID as it will save you a return trip.

"She eventually offered the choice of going to school or going home, but if she went home she wouldn't be allowed to do online learning." This is what gets my goat about schools as it's effectively punishing a child for their anxiety and if attainment is so bloody important why do schools do this? Ridiculous, then the already anxious child worries about what they have missed, worries they have fallen behind which then makes the anxiety about returning even higher.

[quote GrannytoaUnicorn]@StationaryMagpie Shit. My child has ASD and though not at the EHCP stage yet, now I'm scared. I def don't have the personality or confidence to fight like that with my child's school :( The teacher & headteacher are incredibly intimidating and I suffer major anxiety. They do NOT take well to any form of criticism; be in constructive or otherwise!

Shit [/quote]
I didn't think i would either, but i think i got to the point that i got angry with DS just being so mistreated by the school.. there's only so many times you can arrive at school to a small boy in full meltdown because he's just SO overwhelmed before you realise that something has to be done.

I never did well in face to face meetings, i suffer with very bad anxiety, and the HT was a big, scary bloke tbh, but i knew how to write a blistering letter.. and i had the help of friends who'd been there, i also used the resources of IPSEA and SENDIASS... and i had the right of the equality act behind me, which is VERY specific in how disability and reasonable adjustment should be handled... and i just dug my heels in.

Looking back, i don't know how i did it, but i found the strength from somewhere.. i guess as much as i dislike the phrase i went very much mamabear for DS, and i don't regret it, because 5/6 years on, he's thriving in the right educational setting, and i don't very often have to pull out the arse-kicking letters.

The main thing to remember for any of us who have to go into battle, is know your rights, and take advantage of the support out there (and here on MN).. because as long as you have the right of the law behind you, you can keep pushing, keep writing letters, keep escalating, and get where you need to be.

@hiredandsqueak Because it literally isn't a schools job to provide remote learning for anxiety. It opens a can of worms too if we do. 'oh XX is learning from home today, why can't I do that?'. (We had this so so much since students have returned. We are not a remote education provider unless you have covid).

It's enough work setting and checking the work for students off with covid without additional workload.

@Hercisback is that the same policy for all illness (not including covid obviously) then in your school so if a child is off for severe period pain/sprained ankle say would they be denied access to online learning? If that's true then fair enough but it's when schools single out anxiety as not being as valid as physical illness that gets me especially when online learning is already in place anyway.

Yes it's for all illness. It's a slippery slope otherwise. Every school I know of is the same, it would also discourage students from returning because 'it's online anyway'. It isn't an anti anxiety policy, it's a 'no remote learning won't be a viable option long term so get into school'.

[quote hiredandsqueak]@Hercisback is that the same policy for all illness (not including covid obviously) then in your school so if a child is off for severe period pain/sprained ankle say would they be denied access to online learning? If that's true then fair enough but it's when schools single out anxiety as not being as valid as physical illness that gets me especially when online learning is already in place anyway.[/quote]
We don’t offer remote learning for anything other than covid, no.

@GrannytoaUnicorn you put on your battle suit and focus on what is important to you. People who know the real me are astounded that the quiet shy mouse becomes someone entirely different when I'm fighting for my children. It's an act, equip yourself with the knowledge (that is key), stick out your chin, hold your head up and people don't even question that it's an act. Fake it until you make it is my advice.

@Hercisback then I have no problem with any school with that policy but so many schools don't have that policy from what I hear from parents in our group.

We have a " hospital school" which takes over education for any child who is absent for medical reasons for more than 15 days( cumulative) we provide the education for the first 15.

@spanieleyes in our LA they send tutors to the home (out of school tuition service) BUT parents have to really fight as they don't do that without a fight. So they tell parents that without a letter from a consultant you can't have a tutor which is false as there is no such requirement in Section 19, Dd did get a tutor but it took a formal complaint to get that. A complaint that I later took to LGO and got a ruling and £2k almost in recompense for their failings.

The 15 days for alternative provision to be put in doesn’t need to be 15 consecutive days.

Obviously what is put in will vary from case to case and it won’t be full time in most cases.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/803956/supporting-pupils-at-school-with-medical-conditions.pdf

Well, I have a child who has just started long term absence following an operation so I will let you know how I get on when I apply!

@Sirzy
Sorry, that's what I meant by cumulative- I wasn't very clear😢

[quote spanieleyes]@Sirzy
Sorry, that's what I meant by cumulative- I wasn't very clear😢[/quote]
No I re read after I had posted and realised I had misread your post!

I have never heard of a school that routinely provides remote education to pupils off ill (apart from covid). Pre covid we occasionally sent a work pack if we knew a student would be off for a while (particularly if planned absence) but this was not viewed as a viable alternative education.
We tend to work on the premise if they're too ill to be at school, then they're too ill to be learning.

I did give the HT the necessary legislation and the LGO report "Out of School Out of Mind" to pass on to other parents as our LA were trying to dodge that responsibility and put it on schools. He was under the impression that it was school's responsibility as well.