Blair knighthood

[Mummyrowland]

Nearly half a million people have signed a petition over his knighthood in 48 hours.

It should be removed and he shouldn't be awarded it.

After all what did he do that was good?

What about all the squaddies he sent to their deaths over the supposed wmds?

High ranking members of the armed forces are threatening resignation if his award isn't reconsider

Because she did right defending the bloody Falklands! And if your husband was in that conflict he would agree. Mine spent years clearing that ground of mines and bombs and we both support that action

@luckylavender

@madisonbridges Churchill did not start WW2. Blair did start the Iraq war that led to the ME upheaval that is still being suffered by millions of people today.

We all know this. But the reality of these two PMs is not defined by these 2 events. You're deliberately painting very narrow portraits of them both.

Some events do define you, though. Both of these men will be forever linked to the two wars. Churchill defending his country and winning; Blair attacking another country, (he defeated Saddam but dud he win?), and profiteering from it after he left UK politics. I only said about Chruchill because a poster asked what good Churchill did - which in my mind is ridiculous. I doubt I'd agree with a lot that Churchill thought but he was born ninety years before me so I wouldn't expect to.

And I can't disagree more with you that it was "an error of judgement". He went to war on false evidence and after an UN inspection had said definitively there were no weapons there. I remember watching Hans Blix give his report at the UN. All the secret services from different countries had given him various locations where the WMD were supposed to be, he'd searched and they weren't there. What more conclusive evidence would a PM need? Then he had a,students thesis plagiarised and altered and put it in the Iraq dossier to persuade MPs to vote for war. These are not errors of judgement. It willful sidelining if the facts.

@Mummyrowland

Because she did right defending the bloody Falklands! And if your husband was in that conflict he would agree. Mine spent years clearing that ground of mines and bombs and we both support that action

I repeat once more - try and listen this time. My bloke and I aren’t the same person. We think different things. It’s possible to disagree with your old man, you know.

I think it is a perfect honour for Blair to be Knight of the blood soaked British Empire. Couldn't think of a better use of this ridiculous Honours system.
Don't like the vile man but would take him (or rather Gordon Brown) as PM ,than the arseholes who have been in power since .

@Blossomtoes
The war in Iraq was supported by the Tories, we’d be where we are regardless of who was in power. My bloke was shot at in the Falklands and defused bombs in Belfast under Thatcher, nobody protested when she got her honour, did they?

MPs of all sides believed Blair and his dossier. Even Geoff Hoon, the defence Secretary at the time, said that facts were being reported that were not true and he felt they shoukd be corrected,and he was overruled. No one believes a PM will deliberately lie to go to war. If they'd know the true facts, maybe the HoC wouldn't have voted for war. We'll never know.

Thatcher was defending British citizens on the Falklands. She wasn't attacking Argentina. Belfast is part of the UK. Wouldn't you expect the British army to defuse bombs if they were found in Birmingham or Aberdeen or Swansea?

[quote madisonbridges]@Blossomtoes
The war in Iraq was supported by the Tories, we’d be where we are regardless of who was in power. My bloke was shot at in the Falklands and defused bombs in Belfast under Thatcher, nobody protested when she got her honour, did they?

MPs of all sides believed Blair and his dossier. Even Geoff Hoon, the defence Secretary at the time, said that facts were being reported that were not true and he felt they shoukd be corrected,and he was overruled. No one believes a PM will deliberately lie to go to war. If they'd know the true facts, maybe the HoC wouldn't have voted for war. We'll never know.

Thatcher was defending British citizens on the Falklands. She wasn't attacking Argentina. Belfast is part of the UK. Wouldn't you expect the British army to defuse bombs if they were found in Birmingham or Aberdeen or Swansea?[/quote]
Thatcher was defending British citizens on the Falklands. She wasn't attacking Argentina. Belfast is part of the UK. Wouldn't you expect the British army to defuse bombs if they were found in Birmingham or Aberdeen or Swansea?

None of that is in dispute. OP’s point is that the lost lives and aftermath of the Iraq war should prevent Blair from receiving a knighthood. My point is that lost lives and consequences of other conflicts haven’t prevented the PMs of the time from being honoured.

Thatcher inflicted horrific damage on the poorest in society during her premiership and Blair did exactly the reverse. We need to look at the entirety of their premierships, not judge them on selected aspects of them.

Signed. Blair did a lot of good, but much more evil which destroyed or ruined the lives of millions and still does. And apparently he does not regret it.

Thatcher inflicted horrific damage on the poorest in society during her premiership and Blair did exactly the reverse. We need to look at the entirety of their premierships, not judge them on selected aspects of them.
Exactly.

@madisonbridges - oh yes Thatcher. Thatcher who had denied those same Falkland Islanders British passports just before the war. But because she won the bloodshed and the hypocrisy weren't issues. There are many different prisms in history and ways of twisting things the way you want to see them.

@Blossomtoes - I meant to add, good points!

@Maireas

Thatcher inflicted horrific damage on the poorest in society during her premiership and Blair did exactly the reverse. We need to look at the entirety of their premierships, not judge them on selected aspects of them. Exactly.

Some posters don't understand this. They think that moments define a Premiership. I think the GFA should define Blair actually if that's the case. Because the Tory government would have followed Bush too, no doubt. And no one before Blair had been successful at dealing with the troubles.

@Blossomtoes Of course all conflict results in loss of life. But surely there's a difference in attitude towards a PM starting a conflict and one defending British lives from an aggressor.

I agree, @luckylavendar.
The thing is, I was a teacher during the Thatcher and Major years - then the Blair years, and the difference in investment and support was amazing.
Same with the hospital care relatives received, especially waiting lists.
The minimum wage pulled millions of children out of poverty.
I understand that many who have been directly impacted by Iraq etc will disagree with my views. However, he certainly had a positive legacy as well.

[quote luckylavender]@madisonbridges - oh yes Thatcher. Thatcher who had denied those same Falkland Islanders British passports just before the war. But because she won the bloodshed and the hypocrisy weren't issues. There are many different prisms in history and ways of twisting things the way you want to see them. [/quote]
I'm not commenting on Thatchers or Blairs premiership. What I'm saying is Blair started a war. Thatcher defended against an aggressor. There's a difference on how their actions are viewed.

Thatcher inflicted horrific damage on the poorest in society during her premiership and Blair did exactly the reverse. We need to look at the entirety of their premierships, not judge them on selected aspects of them

Agreed
Let's just scrap the whole thing - problem solved.

I give you Lord Jeffrey Archer - convicted criminal and Sir Philip Green - rogue businessman. Outrageous these scumbags were given awards

@madisonbridges - I'm not wasting my whole day on this but what I would say is that Blair didn't start a war. He followed Bush which every other British PM would have done and had done up until then. The Tories supported him. Thatcher saw a political opportunity and seized it. By denying those citizens passports before the war she proved she didn't care about them.

Churchill defended his country from a dictator. I agree, no comparison

'His' country? Ireland? Bengal? South Africa? Mesopotamia?

His country?

Heavens above! I know most of the posters are so much younger than me but here are some facts. What did he do ? He created peace in Ireland. That was something that was thought impossible. Can you not remember the atrocities that took place; the bombings that were a regular occurrence in London and other UK places. Then there were the new hospitals and a rapid decline in hospital waiting times. Education was improved and chances for University entry became a reality for so many. We were respected as a Nation because he was seen to be a credible Prime Minister. The economy boomed.Standards of living improved. Then the Iraq War and the weapons of destruction and the pressure from the United States caused a major distrust that completely obliterated all the achievements he had made. He was a master orator and his views are still treated with respect. This award is made by the Queen and she would be fully aware of what this country owes Tony Blair. Shame on those who would deprive him of this honour.

Petition signed.

Signed and shared.
Disgusting man and should be in front of The Hague.
Unless the queen shouts off with his head while waving that sword about...

@drinkingwineoutofamug - the Queen who has just awarded him his knighthood? It terrifies me how much people sound off about politics without a simple understanding of the facts. The Daily Mail has such a lot to answer for.

Sorry to disappoint. Don't read the daily mail .

He was far and away the best Prime Minister I’ve lived under. Are you all to young to remember what life was like before the Good Friday Agreement? Before a minimum wage? When homelessness plummeted and millions were lifted out of poverty?

He and his government achieved some incredible progress, and we were an optimistic nation for a time.

Iraq is a travesty, but so was invading Afghanistan. And pretty much every time a western country goes around “fixing” other parts of the world. It’s hypocritical to erase Blair’s legacy when all other conflicts get a hand wave.

Anyone who can seriously portray Churchill as a saint in comparison to Blair really needs to educate themselves.

Churchill was a vile, racist, murderous bastard.

@drinkingwineoutofamug

Sorry to disappoint. Don't read the daily mail .

That doesn't matter. It sets the dialogue which permeates everywhere.