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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To expect my landord to provide heating and hot water?

160 replies

Newyearbadstart · 01/01/2022 23:03

I will attempt to be concise but include details in the hope that I don't have to drip feed later. Be kind....because it's a bit of a long story.

So- I moved with my husband and young children from an extended period overseas. Due to the Covid situation, we found a house online and agreed to rent it online. Due to the nature of assured shorthold tennacies in the UK we paid 12 months rent in advance.
We arrived and moved-in in August.

All was fine. We had a very very short handover, the owners did not even walk us around the house/property they just gave us keys and left us with an A4 file of info.

So, on December 27th we discovered unfortunately we had no heating or hot water.
This house is served by an oil fuelled burner which we had to fill in early November when the "watchman" digital alerter told us to fill it.
On discovering that the heating and hot water had failed we messaged the landlord who came out that day and inspected the system and showed us how to reset the boiler. He left feeling that everything was working but he did state that he would call for an engineer to investigate the failure.

At this point I must write that the hot water system has a back-up immersion heater installed in the event that the boiler fails.
We discovered that, as the boiler had failed, the immersion heater was not working. We messaged the landlord about this.

The engineer for the oil boiler came on the 29th and upon arrival, merely looked at the outdoor enclosure for the boiler and informed that since it was raining (drizzling) he could not and would not open the system to investigate what was wrong.

With a real need now to have, at least, hot water for our children we insisted that the landlord look at the back-up immersion that wasn't working. We stated that we believed the 13 amp fused socket was insufficient for the immersion heater and that a 20 amp was required. We sent him photos of the unit showing that the 13 amp socket had melted. He stated, in writing, that the immersion was broken and that he needed to replace the immersion heater itself as well as the socket. A plumber arrived and replaced the immersion and replaced the 13 amp socket.

The next day the hot water failed because the 13 amp socket failed and burned out. We were again left without any hot water and heating has been broken since the 27th.

We requested an emergency electrician and stated it was our belief that the 13 amp fused switch was insufficient for the load. The landlord refused our request.

We asked if we could please get an electrician to replace the 13 amp with a 20 amp and we got the reply that we had to pay for it but that the landlord would send the electrician. We agreed and the electrician attended and installed the new 20 amp switch. We paid for this and we now have hot water.

We have today received an email stating that the "damage" to the main oil burner is our fault and that the landlord will not pay for it. We must agree to pay for all repairs by return email or the repairs are not authorised to go ahead. The reason he has given is that we failed to fill the oil tank before a level that was too low to cause damage to the system.
The file of information left us did not state that if the oil level gets too low it would damage and potentially break the whole system. This is all new to us.
The level of oil, when we filled it, was below the "alert" level for the system they had installed.

We have stated that section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant act 1985 declares that tenants should not be without water or heating for more than 24 hours but the landlord replied that we are "misrepresenting the act" and that "we know it".

We are feeling very bullied and confused. We genuinely don't know if we have messed up a heating system or not, but we didn't have any information to tell us otherwise other than what was in the file. Currently we are looking at looking at a period of pre-paid tenancy with no heating at all unless we pay for repairs we really don't believe we have caused. We don't even know what damage (if any) there is to the system and what the cost of any potential repair is.

Any advice/comments/observations gratefully received. Thank you.

OP posts:
Candied · 01/01/2022 23:07

This house is served by an oil fuelled burner which we had to fill in early November when the "watchman" digital alerter told us to fill it.

Why did you you not top up the oil in November?

Newyearbadstart · 01/01/2022 23:11

@candied
we did the fill the oil tank in November. We filled it when we were alerted to do so, in November.
The heating/hot water failed on 27th December, some 6 weeks later, and the landlord claims the failure is a result of failure to fill up in time.

OP posts:
Akire · 01/01/2022 23:13

Have you not bought or been given an electric fan heater as a bare mim? Least you will have heating in rooms you are using. You can pick them up around £10-15

The 24h thing is widely optimistic. Even with bog standard boiler in big city you be pushed get plumber out same day. Then have wait for parts and a repair. Up to a 3-5 days would be reasonable for buying and fitting.

Could you Contact the shelter charity and ask as they deal with landlords and housing issues where there are problems with repairs. If you weren’t told the issue then you reasonable can’t expect to know the exact week you needed to refill the oil. Only that you did need to before it ran out.

Candied · 01/01/2022 23:14

The reason he has given is that we failed to fill the oil tank before a level that was too low to cause damage to the system.
The file of information left us did not state that if the oil level gets too low it would damage and potentially break the whole system. This is all new to us.
The level of oil, when we filled it, was below the "alert" level for the system they had installed.

Sorry I’ve just re-read your OP. If you didn’t fill the oil up sufficiently of course the system wouldn’t operate. If you have broken the heating system of course you need to pay for repairs to it.

Thingsthatgo · 01/01/2022 23:18

So... you didn’t put enough oil in? Or, it was already too low (and caused damage) by the time you got the alert and filled it? The alert was too late?
Did you fill it immediately when you found out it was getting low?

MojoMoon · 01/01/2022 23:19

Take proper professional legal advice

You may have access to free legal advice if you have contents insurance? It's often included as a benefit.

Or in many big companies, there is an employee assistance program that offers legal advice as a benefit.

Or just pay for an hour of a housing solicitors time. Given the money at stake here with the pre-paid rent, it would be money well spent.

Newyearbadstart · 01/01/2022 23:19

@Akire
Absolutely! I completely agree with you.
I think I'm trying to get across that the landlord is refusing to pay for repairs to the heating. That is my main problem.
As I stand at the moment the landlord had written an email stating that, unless I agree in writing to pay for the repairs then the repairs won't be attended to.
And, as it stands, there is no formal assessment of damage (if any) or cost of potential repairs required.

OP posts:
twinkletoesimnot · 01/01/2022 23:22

Do you have oil in the tank now?

StarryNightSky26 · 01/01/2022 23:24

The reason he has given is that we failed to fill the oil tank before a level that was too low to cause damage to the system

I would reply confirming you refilled when you were alerted to do so and requesting proof of when you were previously informed that it would need to be filled prior to this alert to prevent damage to the system. If this proof can't be provided then you politely decline to cover the costs as you were not fully informed of the maintenance requirements when moving in.

Then repeat your request for working heating and hot water as per the relevant acts and confirm you'll be reporting to xyz if this isn't rectified - I don't know what these are but assume a quick Google will say.

twinkletoesimnot · 01/01/2022 23:24

Even running it right out shouldn't be a problem- it just causes an air lock which needs to be bled / released by an engineer.
It's fair to expect you to pay for this but that's about it.
If the system is broken it's his problem really

Newyearbadstart · 01/01/2022 23:25

As soon as we noticed the oil level was low, we filled the oil.
The property is fitted with an alert. I don't know if it flashes or at what stage some critical alert level registers but the point is.....
before the alert actually alerted us that the oil was low, we filled it.
At no point was the oil in the tank at a "critical level". The oil did not run out and the heating did not fail as a result of low oil.

OP posts:
Janedoe82 · 01/01/2022 23:26

How did you not know that you had to make sure you had oil??? Get an independent engineer to confirm why exactly it has broken and if he concurs that it has broken as you ran out of oil, I think you are responsible. Ignorance isn’t a defence.

EmpressCixi · 01/01/2022 23:27

I think all you can do is request a copy of whatever qualified engineer has investigated the breakage and determined it was your failure to fill the oil tank in time that caused the entire system to fail. I agree I would not pay for repairs unless a 3rd party qualified engineer had stated my inaction caused the failure. You might want to pay for your own engineer to have a look at the oil tank and heating system and diagnose what caused the failure and estimate the repair costs.

But if it turns out you did cause the damage by failing to fill it up in time, then you are responsible to pay for the repairs.

On the immersion heater, I would not have interfered by telling LL you think 13 amp socket isn’t enough, blah blah. You just call and say socket is fused again! No idea why? Please fix again. I would not have paid for the whole 13 amp, 20 amp mess. Your LL sounds pretty horrible as he’s pulled a fast one on you as whoever her hired to do first repair should have come back to redo it at no extra cost.

He might be pulling fast one again. Get an independent engineer out to determine what caused the oil heating system to fail. It shouldn’t break due to too little oil. There should be a shut off valve when the oil gets below a certain point.

Janedoe82 · 01/01/2022 23:28

The bottom part of the oil tank will always have a bit in it but not enough to run effectively.

Newyearbadstart · 01/01/2022 23:31

Just for the sake of absolute clarity.....

We had no alert of low oil.

We actively noticed the oil was running low (but not low enough to alert).
We filled the oil tank.
Heating and water were working fine after the oil fill and for 6 weeks later until until the heating/hot water failed. It is at this point that the landlord states that we are responsible for repairs.6 weeks after the oil fill.

OP posts:
Dillydollydingdong · 01/01/2022 23:32

So how much is the cost of repairs that you're being expected to pay?

twinkletoesimnot · 01/01/2022 23:35

Those watchmen are very unreliable.

How much oil did you buy?

Are you sure there's some in it now?

RainingYetAgain · 01/01/2022 23:35

I would try and get another oil heating specialist to assess your system, they need to be OFTEC registered. Your neighbours might be able to recommend one.
We had oil for 20 years, and my understanding always was that if the oil runs out the system will need bleeding in order for the oil to flow again. However the Watchman should warn you in plenty of time, so if you ordered promply when it warned you, you shouldn't have got anywhere near running out.
The situation with the fuse socket on the immersion is worrying. Has your property got an electrical safety certificate? It is a legal requirement . If it was an incorrect socket, it should have been identified and corrected when the inspection was done.
After the Bank Holiday, it might be worth speaking to Shelter or possibly Citizen's Advice regarding the legality of the heating/safety issues.

Janedoe82 · 01/01/2022 23:36

The watchman doesn’t actually ‘alert’ you- it just says how much is in your tank and subtle flashes when you get down to the bottom couple of bars.
Get an independent appraisal of why the system is broken- it does seem strange for it to be ok after the tank filled.

Cherryblossoms85 · 01/01/2022 23:38

Definitely contact a lawyer and an independent assessment of what has gone wrong. The fact he requested all the rent in advance seems very odd but maybe that's standard if you're applying from overseas. I'm a bit puzzled by some of your behaviour re the fuse (if you're so expert about that, why are you unsure what has caused the damage), but either way you can't really agree to the costs with no proof you caused the damage.

TalbotAMan · 01/01/2022 23:39

I agree that this sounds like a case for proper legal advice.

The section 11 duty doesn't require a repair in 24 hours. A landlord has to repair within a reasonable time of becoming aware of the problem - which will usually be when notified of it by the tenant. It does require a landlord to repair, and pay for, damage/failures caused by normal wear and tear in the system, but not those caused deliberately or negligently by the tenant. I don't think you should have paid to replace the immersion heater socket (which shouldn't really have been done by a plumber in the first place). You will need to establish why the oil burner failed before you can know where you stand legally.

Newyearbadstart · 01/01/2022 23:39

@EmpressCixi
We informed the landlord of our concerns about the immersion heater socket and we included photos of the melted socket.
He chose to replace the melted socked with another 13 amp socket.
The melted socket failed within 24 hours.
The landlord wrote that he had replaced the socket and if we wanted a higher, 20 amp socket, we must pay for it. To be replaced by his electrician, at the cost he stated. He did not allow us to elect our own electrician.
We agreed to pay his electrician 150 pounds to change the blown out 13 amp socket to a 20 amp socket and, having done so, the water can be heated. But not the central heating.
And we are tenants. We have just paid for our hot water supply to be repaired, because we are desperate.

OP posts:
Maverickess · 01/01/2022 23:40

I would reply that you filled the oil when the system alerted you to (and provide a copy of the receipt to prove the date) and have had no further alerts from the system (and maybe a photo of the oil level currently in the tank) to refill so therefore believe that you haven't caused the damage as you filled the tank when alerted to do, and have not received any further alerts to fill the tank again, and that as there's X amount currently in the tank that would indicate that the issue hasn't been caused by a lack of oil. Therefore as the lack of heating isn't caused by you, the issue needs to be resolved in a timely manner to restore the heating, or provide temporary heating until the system is fixed.

But, as a pp has suggested, legal advice is probably the best course of action here, if you can.

Cherryblossoms85 · 01/01/2022 23:41

Also you should request the electrical safety certificate if it has not been provided. Most agents won't let landlords onto their books without it, so if you've not been given it I'd say he's dodgy as fuck. I'm a landlord, and the bloody thing cost me an arm and a leg so it enrages me that people are getting away with this. www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

Theunamedcat · 01/01/2022 23:41

Do you have electricity safety certificates? Is your deposit protected?

Contact shelter ASAP