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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To expect my landord to provide heating and hot water?

160 replies

Newyearbadstart · 01/01/2022 23:03

I will attempt to be concise but include details in the hope that I don't have to drip feed later. Be kind....because it's a bit of a long story.

So- I moved with my husband and young children from an extended period overseas. Due to the Covid situation, we found a house online and agreed to rent it online. Due to the nature of assured shorthold tennacies in the UK we paid 12 months rent in advance.
We arrived and moved-in in August.

All was fine. We had a very very short handover, the owners did not even walk us around the house/property they just gave us keys and left us with an A4 file of info.

So, on December 27th we discovered unfortunately we had no heating or hot water.
This house is served by an oil fuelled burner which we had to fill in early November when the "watchman" digital alerter told us to fill it.
On discovering that the heating and hot water had failed we messaged the landlord who came out that day and inspected the system and showed us how to reset the boiler. He left feeling that everything was working but he did state that he would call for an engineer to investigate the failure.

At this point I must write that the hot water system has a back-up immersion heater installed in the event that the boiler fails.
We discovered that, as the boiler had failed, the immersion heater was not working. We messaged the landlord about this.

The engineer for the oil boiler came on the 29th and upon arrival, merely looked at the outdoor enclosure for the boiler and informed that since it was raining (drizzling) he could not and would not open the system to investigate what was wrong.

With a real need now to have, at least, hot water for our children we insisted that the landlord look at the back-up immersion that wasn't working. We stated that we believed the 13 amp fused socket was insufficient for the immersion heater and that a 20 amp was required. We sent him photos of the unit showing that the 13 amp socket had melted. He stated, in writing, that the immersion was broken and that he needed to replace the immersion heater itself as well as the socket. A plumber arrived and replaced the immersion and replaced the 13 amp socket.

The next day the hot water failed because the 13 amp socket failed and burned out. We were again left without any hot water and heating has been broken since the 27th.

We requested an emergency electrician and stated it was our belief that the 13 amp fused switch was insufficient for the load. The landlord refused our request.

We asked if we could please get an electrician to replace the 13 amp with a 20 amp and we got the reply that we had to pay for it but that the landlord would send the electrician. We agreed and the electrician attended and installed the new 20 amp switch. We paid for this and we now have hot water.

We have today received an email stating that the "damage" to the main oil burner is our fault and that the landlord will not pay for it. We must agree to pay for all repairs by return email or the repairs are not authorised to go ahead. The reason he has given is that we failed to fill the oil tank before a level that was too low to cause damage to the system.
The file of information left us did not state that if the oil level gets too low it would damage and potentially break the whole system. This is all new to us.
The level of oil, when we filled it, was below the "alert" level for the system they had installed.

We have stated that section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant act 1985 declares that tenants should not be without water or heating for more than 24 hours but the landlord replied that we are "misrepresenting the act" and that "we know it".

We are feeling very bullied and confused. We genuinely don't know if we have messed up a heating system or not, but we didn't have any information to tell us otherwise other than what was in the file. Currently we are looking at looking at a period of pre-paid tenancy with no heating at all unless we pay for repairs we really don't believe we have caused. We don't even know what damage (if any) there is to the system and what the cost of any potential repair is.

Any advice/comments/observations gratefully received. Thank you.

OP posts:
FeedMeSantiago · 03/01/2022 08:46

Speak to Shelter and/or Citizens Advice Bureau ASAP for advice. I wouldn't reply to his email until you have further advice.

He's clearly a dodgy LL but Shelter will be able to give you good advice.

DH and I have had some awful LLs over the years and advice from organisations like Shelter and CAB helped us to navigate the issues.

Lifeispassingby · 03/01/2022 08:53

The charity shelter are fantastic with advice re landlords, I used them with a legal issue with a previous landlord and they were so useful, it is worth speaking with them first of all

Newyearbadstart · 03/01/2022 09:25

I have woken up this morning feeling very angry about all of this.
You are all absolutely correct.
We are lucky to be in a country with help available to us to maintain our rights.
He has obligations as a LL and he is attempting to ignore his obligations by passing his costs onto us.
I have emailed to tell him we feel communication has broken down and we have right to seek third party assistance in getting heating for our children.
If those third parties decide that we have caused the breakage in the boiler then sobeit and we will pay to repair but if they do not then they can deal with him.
I don’t have to continue to allow him to bully us about this. Other people can help from here.

Thank you for helping me. I really appreciate all those who have taken the time to post.

OP posts:
JustLyra · 03/01/2022 10:09

Please stop replying to him until after you’ve taken advice.

He’s a charlatan. He’ll be much more experienced at this than you.

Speak to shelter as a matter of urgency.

flippertyop · 03/01/2022 10:34

I haven't read the full post but you absolutely can bugger up an U.K. heating system by letting the oil get too low - I did it. Regardless of if there is an alarm - which is not a must have - it is your responsibility to check the oil. That said I don't think there is any proof this is the issue and when it happened with me it stopped working immediately not 6 weeks later. I also think you need an independent report which if it is not your fault you can charge him for

NotImpossible · 03/01/2022 10:46

Ive not read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been said - it might be worth asking this question on the moneysavingexpert forums in the housing section. There are some very knowledgeable people there - more so than on here where advice on matters like this can be very mixed and often wrong. It sounds like the landlord is trying it on.

flippertyop · 03/01/2022 10:48

@ChequerBoard a full tank in our house lasts about 6 weeks in the winter. It obviously depends on the size of the house and the amount of people in it

ChequerBoard · 03/01/2022 11:14

[quote flippertyop]@ChequerBoard a full tank in our house lasts about 6 weeks in the winter. It obviously depends on the size of the house and the amount of people in it [/quote]

Unless you live in a stately home, I'd be seriously worried about the efficiency of your boiler if I were you. 500l is sufficient for 3 months for our 5 bed house running 14 radiators for around 3 months.

gwenneh · 03/01/2022 11:20

Unless you live in a stately home, I'd be seriously worried about the efficiency of your boiler if I were you. 500l is sufficient for 3 months for our 5 bed house running 14 radiators for around 3 months.

Agree with this -- we get similar results in a 4 BR home, our boiler is nearly 20 years old, too so it's not new or wildly efficient. Oil heating is expensive, I'd be having a look into this!

RainingYetAgain · 03/01/2022 11:38

Another agreeing. 20 years plus oil boiler, large 4 bed house with 15 radiators used about 2000l per year, both retired and at home, so heating on a lot of the time. Even if only a 900l tank , filling it would last 3 months plus in the winter.
If you had run out of oil, I would be looking for a leak.
Seek advice from shelter first, then speak to the Council and probably a solicitor.

RainingYetAgain · 03/01/2022 11:40

I don't suppose the neighbours you spoke to havecontact details for the previous tenants, who were charged for the carpets? Might be worth a chat.

ponkydonkey · 03/01/2022 11:50

I'm a Land lord and electrical certs need to be done every 5 years

So his is out of date and probably not acceptable under the new guidelines so he is breaking the law

www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

Lots of good info on here!

Look up gas and oil filled certs too! I think he'll back down when you start sending these links over to him 😀

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 03/01/2022 11:57

Even if you run the tank dry it won't break the system, it will need bleeding. We had to have ours bled twice when we rented, before Watchmen were invented.

So your LL is talking crap twice - the second being hi assertion that he won't get a repair unless you pay.

You need proper legal advice. You can't stay there, who knows what else he has done, or will do, that is illegal?

So get legal advice and think about the tenancy from the beginning.

Did you get the prescribed paperwork in a timely manner?
Did you pay a deposit and get the certificate in a timely manner?
Is there the proper EPC, electric certificate etc?

He sounds like a landlord who needs a few lessons in How to Rent legitimately.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 03/01/2022 11:58

Apologies, I can see you have had all of that advice - I was so pissed off on your behalf I missed a page 🙄

Exasperatedhousehunter · 03/01/2022 12:13

If you’ve paid a deposit, definitely check that it’s been protected in a scheme because if it hasn’t, you will be entitled to automatic compensation from the landlord. I know a lazy-arse landlord who didn’t protect the deposit in time and there was no legal defence available to him and he had to pay up.

The people telling the OP that she should fork out for the repairs should be ashamed of yourselves. This is 100% the responsibility of the LL. If you want someone else to pay your mortgage/provide you with an income, you’ve got to comply with your legal obligations.

cansu · 03/01/2022 12:21

He is taking the piss. Even if the tank did get too low (this has happened to us) it is not a big deal to get it going again. It sounds to me like he knows there is a big repair coming and is trying to get out of paying it. Get some legal advice and look at how you get out of this contract.

RandomMess · 03/01/2022 12:29

One of the few (only?) "joy" of renting is that house repair bills are not your responsibility!!

Malibuismysecrethome · 03/01/2022 14:34

I can categorically state that you will not have to pay for a new heating system. Your landlord does not have the first clue about his responsibilities.

bluebell34567 · 03/01/2022 14:59

Due to the nature of assured shorthold tennacies in the UK we paid 12 months rent in advance.

is that true? 12 months.

Exasperatedhousehunter · 03/01/2022 15:02

@bluebell34567

Due to the nature of assured shorthold tennacies in the UK we paid 12 months rent in advance.

is that true? 12 months.

It’s not but the rental market is dire so many landlords will stipulate this and tenants have little chance but to comply if they want the property. I’ve definitely seen it for 6 month tenancies - all rent upfront. It shouldn’t be allowed.
ChequerBoard · 03/01/2022 15:07

OP when the offices are back open tomorrow, see if you can contact the private rental team at your local council. They may be able to help and will involve environmental health if necessary (can happen if there is no heating)

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housingadvice/repairs/complaintoenvironmentalhealthaboutprivaterentedhousing

poetryandwine · 03/01/2022 15:50

I like the letter suggested by @CornishTiger very much. But rationally it is best to take legal advice before engaging further with your LL. I hope you will learn that you have quite a lot of leverage.

Hankunamatata · 03/01/2022 16:09

We have oil. Iv never heard of damage being cause by running out of oil. Yes you have to bleed the boiler perhaps change a filter but that's it. It's easy to repair oil burner. You can take parts out and get them fixed.

JustLyra · 03/01/2022 20:37

@bluebell34567

Due to the nature of assured shorthold tennacies in the UK we paid 12 months rent in advance.

is that true? 12 months.

Lots of shit landlords are using it atm after the deposit rules were tightened up.