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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a driver (or cyclist) having to give way to a pedestrian waiting to cross is a crazy new rule?

449 replies

flashbac · 31/12/2021 07:17

To clarify, if a pedestrian is waiting to cross on a road a driver is turning into, new rules from January state the driver has to let them cross.
Also applies to cyclists as pedestrians have priority.
All very well and good until you consider how chaotic this could be at junctions. Fine on unbusy roads.
I'm thinking:
What if you are turning into a 30 mph road from a 40?
What if you are turning right at a busy junction?

It sounds crazy to me.
And before anyone jumps at me and says they do it in Europe and its fine. I'd like to know how congested and busy the roads in these countries are and what the public transport is like.

OP posts:
Poppins2016 · 31/12/2021 08:08

@KiloWhat

Scanning the pavements of the junction you are turning into should be second nature, to spot someone starting to cross before you turn in (this was a basic taught when I learnt to drive). yes I had to double check that this was indeed a new rule as I had been taught to check for people about to cross anyway. This just gives them extra priority
I agree with this.

Coincidentally, over the last few months I've seen several near misses when the car in front of me has been turning and almost hit someone because they didn't see the pedestrian who was starting to cross. It's worrying that people don't seem to check automatically, especially so because pedestrians often don't seem to check for turning cars either (increasing the chances of an accident even further).

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 08:08

[quote Simonjt]@HunterHearstHelmsley Are you saying when you are unable to see the road ahead due to a parked vehicle you choose to drive in a manner that is dangerous to the road conditions you are facing?

I always find it weird when dangerous drivers are proud of their dangerous driving and think other road users are somehow incapable of driving at the speed limit because they slow down for hazards, as they should.[/quote]
No, I put a glib response because you are being ridiculous. I explained why people may find it concerning and you decided to take it to the nth term.

I don't drive dangerously, I don't make things up from what people haven't actually said either.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/12/2021 08:09

@KiloWhat

There is another rule coming in where cyclists have priority over horse riders on the road hmm I'd like to see their logic in deciding that one in case I'm missing something.
Yes, that one does sound bonkers. Anyone who doesn't give horses priority and a very wide berth is asking for trouble.
Simonjt · 31/12/2021 08:10

If you’re choosing not to reduce your speed at a junction where visibility is reduced, in your case due to a parked vehicle, you are driving dangerously. It really isn’t a difficult concept.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 08:11

@snapsieplopp

A lot of drivers are really, really crap. They don't pay attention, they cut corners, they don't indicate etc etc.

I agree & one reason this change should be highlighted a lot more.

I will always stop for a pedestrian crossing the road, doesn't mean it's something I would do as a pedestrian

I was in Cambridge a few years back, I'd end up standing on the kerb for ages as everyone else was crossing and I was standing there like an absolute lemon! I made sure I was at an actual crossing for the rest of the trip because I couldn't just step into the road when a car was coming!
HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 08:11

@Simonjt

If you’re choosing not to reduce your speed at a junction where visibility is reduced, in your case due to a parked vehicle, you are driving dangerously. It really isn’t a difficult concept.
Stop making things up. No one has said that.
Simonjt · 31/12/2021 08:12

@countingto10

There is another rule coming in where cyclists have priority over horse riders on the road - not much thought went into that one bearing in mind some horses can be seriously spooked by cyclists silently speeding past them. Everyone should pass horses wide and slow, stopping ie give way, if necessary. I think the BHS etc are already on the case with this particular rule.

Please no comments about horses not being allowed on roads etc. Sometimes we have to use roads to get to bridleways.

Yes the horses rule is stupid, especially as a bike is very quiet and some horses are more startled by seeing something suddenly rather than hearing an approach.

I certainly won’t be putting myself as a priority over horses and their riders.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 08:12

Unless you don't actually realise, you could still hit and injure someone even if you were crawling around the corner? That would make your posts make a modicum of sense.

snapsieplopp · 31/12/2021 08:13

People who drive really shouldn't moan about congestion. If you have concerns about congestion, stop driving.

Well Im moaning about a potential fine but I don't buy into the narrative that you can't moan about something that you use.
LTNs have caused unnecessary congestion in my area & whilst my road has benefited from it I can see how others are worse of.

Mummyoflittledragon · 31/12/2021 08:13

@WrigglyDonCat

Despite the way the media etc. like to portray this, the really isn't any change at all. Sure the HC may have been rewritten to describe things differently, but underneath the laws remain the same.

As others have mentioned, the legal situation previously (and it's still the case) is that when you cross the broken line turning into a side road, you must give way to any road user already established on that piece of road (whether a pedestrian, oncoming vehicle going around an obstruction etc.).

What that always meant, by logical extension, was that it should in effect be treated as a zebra crossing with respect to pedestrians. Give way to anyone crossing, or who could start to cross before you cross the line. Incidentally, legally the same was always true of real zebra crossings - you only had to give way by law to those already on the crossing, not those waiting to cross - but the logical extension is that you should give way to anyone who could have stepped onto the crossing prior to your arrival.

Of course, although the laws haven't changed, in any resulting criminal prosecution for careless or dangerous driving, the guidance of the Highway Code is taken into consideration. So whether actual law or not, it does play a part in determining the standard of your driving.

So the new changes will make not a jot of difference to how I drive. I will continue to offer waiting pedestrians the chance to cross. They often don't and prefer to wait, but the offer is always there.

Exactly. I know the majority of motorists don’t seem to slow / stop. But I do. Most pedestrians actually don’t move when I do or wave me on as it’s confusing for them and they’d rather see the road clear.

I agree we need a campaign. But I imagine the budget has been eaten up with brexshit and now covid.

traka · 31/12/2021 08:14

It will be impossible to enforce so don't worry about it

Simonjt · 31/12/2021 08:16

@HunterHearstHelmsley

Unless you don't actually realise, you could still hit and injure someone even if you were crawling around the corner? That would make your posts make a modicum of sense.
Any time you drive you need to be able to stop in the distance you can see, so often when cars etc are parked on corners you have to drive slowly to drive safely. If you are driving at an appropriate speed you would be able to stop before the length of the parked vehicle which would prevent you running someone over, you then reach the end of the vehicle and see so you can increase your speed again.

Basic driving that everyone should be taught as a learner.

snapsieplopp · 31/12/2021 08:16

Does it also apply at junctions with traffic lights - if so I can see Princes St in Edinburgh grinding to a halt as no car can turn left due to ceaseless meandering pedestrians.
What happens now? Do drivers just plough through them?

I presume the majority stop as the red man is showing

Mummyoflittledragon · 31/12/2021 08:18

I didn’t know the cyclists over horses and cars over buses rule. Both are bonkers. Some cyclists will put horses and their riders at risk. In Germany, you allow the bus to pull out. Many years ago there was a campaign in the U.K. What is happening with ‘Please let buses pull out’?

JuergenSchwarzwald · 31/12/2021 08:18

@traka

It will be impossible to enforce so don't worry about it
Not RTFT but no, it's not a crazy new rule. See the end of the side road you want to turn into as a continuation of the pavement and you see the point. Same for cycle paths (where they exist).

And of course people need to worry about it. Ridiculous comment! Do you really think it's ok to drive at people?

I agree there needs to be an awareness campaign.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 08:19

I really don't think it's going to make much difference.

If I'm walking, I'm still going to look and check before crossing and not cross if I can see a car signaling to turn.
If I'm in my car, I'm still going to check for pedestrians crossing the road and not run them over.

I think most people will be the same. No one wants to hit someone with their car and no one wants to get hit!

There will still be incidents. There are always incidents, I don't know how many accidents there are every day but there will be poor decisions, mistakes, etc. There is always going to be human error but most people on the roads (on foot, on a bike, in a car, on a horse) try to be sensible.

rrhuth · 31/12/2021 08:21

@snapsieplopp

People who drive really shouldn't moan about congestion. If you have concerns about congestion, stop driving.

Well Im moaning about a potential fine but I don't buy into the narrative that you can't moan about something that you use.
LTNs have caused unnecessary congestion in my area & whilst my road has benefited from it I can see how others are worse of.

Well obviously you can moan about it, as in the words can come out of your mouth.

Most drivers are awful hypocrites. If you want to drive, accept that so does everyone else and learn to enjoy sitting in traffic.

LTNs are good, there should be more of them.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 08:21

@Mummyoflittledragon

I didn’t know the cyclists over horses and cars over buses rule. Both are bonkers. Some cyclists will put horses and their riders at risk. In Germany, you allow the bus to pull out. Many years ago there was a campaign in the U.K. What is happening with ‘Please let buses pull out’?
I believe its about those who can cause the most damage having the lowest priority, so buses are low down.

Just thought about lorries, if a lorry is turning it may not be feasible for them to stop or to actually see someone in front of their cab.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 08:22

When I say feasible, I mean as in there isn't enough time/space, not that they're in a hurry.

KiloWhat · 31/12/2021 08:22

Where do tractors come into the hierarchy?

jgw1 · 31/12/2021 08:24

@ErrolTheDragon

She said 30 into 40, not 40 into 30.

She said What if you are turning into a 30 mph road from a 40?

...so no different to going from 30 to 30 as you need to have already reduced your speed.

Aren't you supposed to reduce your speed when you get to the sign? It really annoys me that people slow down in advance of the speed signs.
Simonjt · 31/12/2021 08:26

@jgw1 You need to be doing the speed or under once you pass the sign, so if you don’t reduce your speed before the sign you be speeding.

LolaSmiles · 31/12/2021 08:27

If I'm walking, I'm still going to look and check before crossing and not cross if I can see a car signaling to turn.
If I'm in my car, I'm still going to check for pedestrians crossing the road and not run them over.

I think most people will be the same. No one wants to hit someone with their car and no one wants to get hit!
Same here and I suspect you're right, though I've always been entertained by some posts on MN where posters would rather be technically in the right and injured rather than take precautions and remain uninjured.

Years ago there was a funny thread about zebra crossings where some posters said they wouldn't check the road or check a car is stopping because technically they have rights. A few recent dog threads had posters arguing they didn't need to take reasonable steps to safeguard their children because technically of their child is hurt by a dog it's the owners fault. Meanwhile several people on the thread were like what the hell, I'd rather keep my child safe than have an injured child arguing about who was legally in the wrong.

Some people have no sense of self-preservation or safety.

ravenmum · 31/12/2021 08:27

And before anyone jumps at me and says they do it in Europe and its fine. I'd like to know how congested and busy the roads in these countries are and what the public transport is like
I live in Europe and can confirm that the roads are like vast empty plains, with cows grazing on them.

jgw1 · 31/12/2021 08:27

[quote Simonjt]@jgw1 You need to be doing the speed or under once you pass the sign, so if you don’t reduce your speed before the sign you be speeding.[/quote]
I tried that once, the person in the car behind me nearly drove into me.

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