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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a driver (or cyclist) having to give way to a pedestrian waiting to cross is a crazy new rule?

449 replies

flashbac · 31/12/2021 07:17

To clarify, if a pedestrian is waiting to cross on a road a driver is turning into, new rules from January state the driver has to let them cross.
Also applies to cyclists as pedestrians have priority.
All very well and good until you consider how chaotic this could be at junctions. Fine on unbusy roads.
I'm thinking:
What if you are turning into a 30 mph road from a 40?
What if you are turning right at a busy junction?

It sounds crazy to me.
And before anyone jumps at me and says they do it in Europe and its fine. I'd like to know how congested and busy the roads in these countries are and what the public transport is like.

OP posts:
KiloWhat · 31/12/2021 07:43

@flashbac

For the umpteenth time, the rules are CHANGING so that a driver has to stop if a pedestrian is WAITING to cross. I have no issue with stopping if they are already crossing.
Then why is it an issue if they are just about to cross and are waiting? What is the difference between them being in the road and about to be in the road to the driver?
CarbsAreNotMyFriend · 31/12/2021 07:43

Wow, I hadn't heard this! So if a pedestrian is WAITING to cross, you have to let them cross? So do you have to slow down, wait for the pedestrian to notice you have slowed/stopped and then signal to them to cross? Because unless it's a pedestrian crossing, most pedestrians will stop at the edge of the pavement and wait for the traffic to pass.

Sounds like chaos! And dangerous. As a PP pointed out, if there is traffic coming from the opposite direction of the side road, they won't stop and the pedestrian could be hit. This is why I'm always cautious about gesturing to someone to cross - because they focus on you, take your instruction and can forget to check for traffic the other way before crossing.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 07:44

I can't imagine all pedestrians just stepping out into the road tbh. As other posters have said, pedestrians already have priority when crossing a road a car is turning into. Most people still look and pay attention and don't just launch themselves into the road when a car is about to turn in. For self preservation as much as anything!

Cars taking priority over buses will be interesting! No more smacking the signal on and immediately pulling out when a car is part way through overtaking.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/12/2021 07:44

It will work fine if everyone treats junctions like an implicit zebra crossing.

That should go for pedestrians too of course - check that it should be safe to cross not just hurl yourself out... which is what anyone sensible will do.

Unescorted · 31/12/2021 07:44

This us how it's been. But now we are going to have pedestrians just stepping out because it's their right of way, potentially. Whereas previously it's just been about paying attention to pedestrians.

You should be approaching a junction at a speed that if someone / something/ blockage was in the road you could stop. This is no change.

I'm not concerned about not stopping. I'm more concerned about the people behind me not stopping or the build up of congestion.

They should be driving with due care and attention or leaving more space and or driving more slowly in built up areas and as they and you approach junctions - what happens hen you have to do an emergency stop? I was taught if some one is driving too close to me that I should slow down to make the distance between me and them the correct stopping distance.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/12/2021 07:47

She said 30 into 40, not 40 into 30.

She said What if you are turning into a 30 mph road from a 40?

...so no different to going from 30 to 30 as you need to have already reduced your speed.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 07:48

Then why is it an issue if they are just about to cross and are waiting? What is the difference between them being in the road and about to be in the road to the driver?

Partly because they may just be hovering and not intending to cross, or that the car turning in may not be able to see them on the kerb. There is a van parked on the corner of the end of my street (don't get me started). Quite often you can't see another vehicle, I dread the thought of a pedestrian being there and not seeing them.

It would be sensible if we were told not to cross right at the end of a road, as well as these new rules.

KiloWhat · 31/12/2021 07:48

This is why I'm always cautious about gesturing to someone to cross well yes. You should have been taught on your driving lessons to never do this.

OhPeeQueue · 31/12/2021 07:48

I didn’t know this, but I do this anyway? It’s how I drive.
Sometimes they won’t cross and it causes confusion, so I think this law will be helpful as the pedestrians will hopefully just cross when they see a car slowing down and signalling.

Petal12 · 31/12/2021 07:49

Do you have a link to an official publication of this new rule please? I work in liability and motor insurance and it’s something we should absolutely be aware of but nothings filtered down to my knowledge.

loudbatperson · 31/12/2021 07:50

I am not sure people assume everyone is going to start walking out into roads without looking and being cautious?

For everyone who has said that.... is that what you intend to do?

People will be cautious and only cross when safe.

In regards to people going into the back of the car waiting to turn, surely this is the same risk as before? When turning in to a junction you often have to wait because someone is crossing, there is someone blocking the road, a queue of traffic etc. Are people routinely getting rear ended when pausing for other road users? Of course it happens occasionally, but that is normally due to driver error (lack of observation and driving too close, sometimes made worse by the turning driver failing to signal in good time before breaking).

ErrolTheDragon · 31/12/2021 07:50

There is a van parked on the corner of the end of my street (don't get me started). Quite often you can't see another vehicle, I dread the thought of a pedestrian being there and not seeing them.

So in that situation you'll obviously be going slowly enough to stop or pause anyway?

WrigglyDonCat · 31/12/2021 07:51

Despite the way the media etc. like to portray this, the really isn't any change at all. Sure the HC may have been rewritten to describe things differently, but underneath the laws remain the same.

As others have mentioned, the legal situation previously (and it's still the case) is that when you cross the broken line turning into a side road, you must give way to any road user already established on that piece of road (whether a pedestrian, oncoming vehicle going around an obstruction etc.).

What that always meant, by logical extension, was that it should in effect be treated as a zebra crossing with respect to pedestrians. Give way to anyone crossing, or who could start to cross before you cross the line. Incidentally, legally the same was always true of real zebra crossings - you only had to give way by law to those already on the crossing, not those waiting to cross - but the logical extension is that you should give way to anyone who could have stepped onto the crossing prior to your arrival.

Of course, although the laws haven't changed, in any resulting criminal prosecution for careless or dangerous driving, the guidance of the Highway Code is taken into consideration. So whether actual law or not, it does play a part in determining the standard of your driving.

So the new changes will make not a jot of difference to how I drive. I will continue to offer waiting pedestrians the chance to cross. They often don't and prefer to wait, but the offer is always there.

Simonjt · 31/12/2021 07:51

@HunterHearstHelmsley

Then why is it an issue if they are just about to cross and are waiting? What is the difference between them being in the road and about to be in the road to the driver?

Partly because they may just be hovering and not intending to cross, or that the car turning in may not be able to see them on the kerb. There is a van parked on the corner of the end of my street (don't get me started). Quite often you can't see another vehicle, I dread the thought of a pedestrian being there and not seeing them.

It would be sensible if we were told not to cross right at the end of a road, as well as these new rules.

In which case you are driving slowly enough to stop for a pedestrian, as after all you should be driving at a speed where you can stop within the distance you can see. If you can’t stop within the distance you can see you’re driving too fast for the conditions.
Tootfroot · 31/12/2021 07:52

I think the build up of traffic is relevant. If a driver is waiting to make a turn and pedestrians are availing themselves of their right of way, lots of them would cause back up behind the waiting driver. Not such a big deal if one or two.
I can just see misunderstandings ahead. It's always been the law to pay attention to more vulnerable road users (as well as the decent, safe thing to do) but this new right of way is a big change.

KiloWhat · 31/12/2021 07:52

Partly because they may just be hovering and not intending to cross there are very few people who hover at the edge of a pavement and if someone is hovering there then a driver should be aware of the potential hazard and going slowly enough that should their intention be to cross then it will become obvious and brakes can be applied.

I get your point about the vans. Maybe they should be more aggressive with their use of double yellow lines.

skodadoda · 31/12/2021 07:54

@Unescorted

Surely if you are turning into a junction you are going slow enough to pause momentarily to allow a person continue in their straight line journey. If you can't manage that without causing chaos then you may want to think about your ability to drive.
This. Previous comment about turning from a 40mph into a 30mph road show the mentality of some drivers. You should drive within the limits at a speed appropriate to the situation.
CounsellorTroi · 31/12/2021 07:54

What about when a road you are turning into has a light controlled crossing (not a zebra)? Can you assume you have right of way when you turn or would you have to stop if there was a pedestrian there even if the red man was showing?

loudbatperson · 31/12/2021 07:54

@shouldistop

It's bonkers and there's no way I'll be teaching my children they can step out in front of a car.
Having priority is not the same as teaching people to walk out in front of a car.

When you are driving and you come to a pinch point where your lane has priority over the oncoming lane, however it looks like the person in the oncoming lane is not going to hold back/give way, would you just plough right on because you have priority?

No. The same will apply to pedestrians.

thedancingbear · 31/12/2021 07:55

@Unescorted

Surely if you are turning into a junction you are going slow enough to pause momentarily to allow a person continue in their straight line journey. If you can't manage that without causing chaos then you may want to think about your ability to drive.
Agreed 100%. You don’t automatically have more rights over other people just because you’re in a metal box. The pedestrian is continuing in a straight line. You are not.

If this new rule is going to be a problem for you, then you need to hand your driving licence in.

rrhuth · 31/12/2021 07:56

It is correct to change the hierachy.

People are just going to have to get used to it and drive more carefully. A lot of drivers are really, really crap. They don't pay attention, they cut corners, they don't indicate etc etc.

WutheringHeights66 · 31/12/2021 07:56

@WrigglyDonCat

Despite the way the media etc. like to portray this, the really isn't any change at all. Sure the HC may have been rewritten to describe things differently, but underneath the laws remain the same.

As others have mentioned, the legal situation previously (and it's still the case) is that when you cross the broken line turning into a side road, you must give way to any road user already established on that piece of road (whether a pedestrian, oncoming vehicle going around an obstruction etc.).

What that always meant, by logical extension, was that it should in effect be treated as a zebra crossing with respect to pedestrians. Give way to anyone crossing, or who could start to cross before you cross the line. Incidentally, legally the same was always true of real zebra crossings - you only had to give way by law to those already on the crossing, not those waiting to cross - but the logical extension is that you should give way to anyone who could have stepped onto the crossing prior to your arrival.

Of course, although the laws haven't changed, in any resulting criminal prosecution for careless or dangerous driving, the guidance of the Highway Code is taken into consideration. So whether actual law or not, it does play a part in determining the standard of your driving.

So the new changes will make not a jot of difference to how I drive. I will continue to offer waiting pedestrians the chance to cross. They often don't and prefer to wait, but the offer is always there.

Thank you, this makes perfect sense, especially since the on,y 0,ace I had heard of the “new rules” was on MN.
HunterHearstHelmsley · 31/12/2021 07:56

@KiloWhat

Partly because they may just be hovering and not intending to cross there are very few people who hover at the edge of a pavement and if someone is hovering there then a driver should be aware of the potential hazard and going slowly enough that should their intention be to cross then it will become obvious and brakes can be applied.

I get your point about the vans. Maybe they should be more aggressive with their use of double yellow lines.

It happens a lot around here! Particularly at crossings, there's always a bunch of people having a chat (often with their dogs) and you're sat there thinking.. do I or don't I?! Grin

In which case you are driving slowly enough to stop for a pedestrian, as after all you should be driving at a speed where you can stop within the distance you can see. If you can’t stop within the distance you can see you’re driving too fast for the conditions.

Ah, one of those people that drive 15 mph everywhere!

SpindleSpangle · 31/12/2021 07:56

@ShirleyPhallus

I think it’s awful, especially driving through bits of London like Croydon where everyone seems to step out without even looking anyway
It's a nightmare near me. Pedestrians stepping out without looking, gawping at phones; drivers on phones; cyclists on pavements looking at phones; people on illegal e-scooters weaving in and out of traffic; cycle lanes blocked by delivery vehicles; drivers going through red lights; drivers speeding.

How do you design a hierarchy of twats?

FuckeryOmbudsman · 31/12/2021 07:56

@loudbatperson

I think if more drivers and cyclist obeyed the old rule (pedestrians already crossing the new road had priority over those turning in), and drove accordingly and cautiously when turning into a junction, the new rule wouldn't have been needed.
I very much agree with this, and an delighted to see that the rule has been strengthened

It wouldn't have been needed I people had generally obeyed the existing Code on this

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