Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Bossy woman at work - bullying

82 replies

LibbyVonTrap · 31/12/2021 04:00

I’m a HCA on a hospital ward. Early this year a student nurse joined the ward and she was bossy as hell, ordered all the HCAs and patients around and even tried to boss the qualified nurses around. She continuously wrote incident reports/Datix about people and tried to change various aspects of the way the ward was run. She was a 2nd year. She drove us all mad and one of the other HCAs complained about her in the end to the charge nurse. Charge nurse had a word with her and she promptly reported charge nurse and the HCA to HR. She was an absolute nightmare.
Anyway, her placement finished thankfully and she left. However she has now returned as a HCA!!! She immediately tried to boss everyone around again as soon as she came back and one of the HCAs snapped at her and said “you bossed me around as a student, you’re not bossing me around as a HCA”. Naturally she immediately reported her.

Since then charge nurse has spoken to everyone saying the situation is difficult but we just have to learn to get along with her as she technically isn’t doing anything wrong. One of the male nurses pointed out that she looks like Sid from Ice Age and this has become her nickname. I was bullied as a child and I’m uncomfortable with this. I have spoken to charge nurse who snapped at me and said she’s sick to death of complaints both from and about this woman.
For Christmas one of the nurses bought her a mug with Sid on it. She doesn’t know this is her nickname so she’s proudly using it every day at work and doesn’t appear to have noticed the sniggering etc.

The whole thing is driving me mad!! If I tell her all hell with break loose. If I don’t I feel guilty and on edge.

AIBU to turn a blind eye and tell myself she kind of brought it on herself? It’s making me want to leave my job.

OP posts:
Jaguar77 · 31/12/2021 08:44

Why are you responding when she cracks the whip? You're enabling bad behavior.

lottiegarbanzo · 31/12/2021 08:45

So my prediction is that in the end, she'll make a complaint against the department, or sue for constructive dismissal and the case will be found in her favour.

Quite rightly, because she hasn't been managed properly, hasn't been told 'no' or guided towards better professional practice and you've all colluded in setting her up to look bad, then bitched about her. Mass bullying.

Treecreature · 31/12/2021 08:53

Absolutely tell her. Honestly is best. How would you like it if everybody was sniggering behind your back and nobody told you?

user1471462428 · 31/12/2021 08:55

Could you request opposite shifts to her and cite a clash of personality. Personally I’d stay well out of it in your position. I worked for 12 years in the NHS across 3 different trusts. I came across some hideous bullies and I’d ended just keeping my head down as nothing ever happened to them and when I did whistle blow it made things worse for me.

Same360 · 31/12/2021 09:07

I feel for you OP, I also hate bullying like nasty nicknames eg ‘Sid’ but it’s hard when the person is so unlikeable and alienates themselves. A lot of the comments so far have been very unhelpful, it’s not your fault that she’s like this or how management have handled it! I’d say definitely don’t mention it to her or steal/break her mug as that will open a whole can of worms. No idea what you can do though, and I can easily see how this happens - loads of times at any workplace you see people doing things which, while fine, technically aren’t the best way it could be done. As a new person you don’t march over there and say ‘Why don’t you do X and Y, it makes more sense’ but if you did, I bet 90% of people would just go and do it and then moan about you behind your back!

Dangermouse5 · 31/12/2021 09:08

@LibbyVonTrap
Your examples of her bossiness are

⁃	A time Sid suggested best use of skill set to  a nurse who could get on with medication round whilst as rest of you stood around waiting to hand out patient meals

⁃	Sid Organising the shift, - if no one else is doing it isn’t that normal practice to have clear responsibilities of who does what and agree it yourselves ?

⁃	Pointing out to you that a patient is independent and should be encouraged to wash himself - was she right or respectful in how she did this in front of patient? Could Percy use bowl or go to bathroom independently to wash himself? Patients in hospital fare less well if encouraged to stay in bed but she can choose to be be encouraging rather than dismissive 

Everyone has bought into what you said OP that she’s unnecessarily bossy and bit of a bully herself. But in your examples it sounds like she’s using her uni learning to critically reflect on what seems laxidaisical practice on your ward. Is it just how she says it? It was a bit of a (unintended) drip feed to say that she has gone back to uni to complain about poor practice on the ward and seek advice how to deal with it. You expect any profession training student to do that.

So it sounds like her edges need to be softened but that you may need to be better organised on the ward,

LampBookPicture · 31/12/2021 09:12

I get that this is really difficult OP but the details on this thread are immediately identifying and if this woman is on MN it will be truly devastating for her to read this. No one deserves that.

Offmyfence · 31/12/2021 09:13

@ThesecondLEM

Nor your circus, not your monkeys
This
Lalliella · 31/12/2021 09:17

I just googled Sid - how can someone look like that??! ^^

Don’t tell her, she brought it on herself.

Next time she tries to boss you around, particularly in front of a patient, have a quiet word with her about why you’re doing what you’re doing and why it isn’t appropriate for her to speak the way she does. The way she dealt with Percy was completely unprofessional.

TyrannosaurusRegina · 31/12/2021 09:22

@Warblerinwinter

YABU to call a women bossy or matron. These are words used to label women who show assertiveness or are a little too agressive to fi the normal expectations of how women should behave. You need to think more carefully about what exactly is the problem. It sounds like she is right about what she says. People don’t like being called out. And they don’t like being called out by someone at a lower or similar grade. That’s not unreasonable or surprising . This women is probably more task focused than people focused. She is probably frustrated that the rest of team is messing around at times rather than cracking on with tasks . She may not have such great social skills to be able to approach this with you all. This needs to be raised with your boss in a balanced way. Fist record the issues this individual is calling out and when, is it fair? Is she right? If that is the case then manager needs to review this in terms of defining ways of working and expectations. The second issue is then working with the women as development on how to manage her frustrations in working with team member who have different personality types that are less task focused and maybe more people focused. Making her aware of it is first step. Without resorting to sexual stereotype name calling like bossy. Yes she will be aware that she is having difficulty getting along and be hurt by it. She just wants to get the job done and be good at what she does.
I disagree with your comment about calling a woman bossy or matron. We have a HCA identical to the one in this scenario who is male. We call him our band 10 and yes, he is bloody bossy! People can boss others around and be called out on it, male or female.

Nursing is about teamwork, I believe that is within the code of conduct. Getting everyone's backs up, confronting a colleague about patient care right in front of the patient when she has no idea about why the HCA is helping the patient on that particular occasion is unprofessional and needs addressed. In an appropriate manner.

GoodPrincessWenceslas · 31/12/2021 09:23

@ThesecondLEM

Nor your circus, not your monkeys
She's working with this every day, of course it's OP's "circus".
Getyourjinglebellsinarow · 31/12/2021 09:24

She's been indulged her whole life and now the big bad world is going to bring her down a peg or two. Or she might end up just bouncing from job to job saying everyone is horrible and it's not her fault. Either way. They're not actively bullying her and no one is required to like someone that isn't nice.

thenightsky · 31/12/2021 09:25

Say absolutely nothing and make sure you are well removed from the Sid/mug/bullying thing.

I worked in a similar situation within an NHS Trust. One person started the nickname and another person bought a pen with the nickname on and sent it through internal post the victim. Victim reported it and the pen buyer was immediately identified via emails and DMs that had been sent. Pen buyer was suspended the same day and sacked for gross misconduct 3 months later, as was the nickname inventor.

Both sacked staff members have never worked since. Impossible to find jobs if you are sacked for bullying.

GoodPrincessWenceslas · 31/12/2021 09:32

Can't you all agree to challenge her politely every time she orders you around? E.g. in the examples you have given, people told by her what to do could say each time "Look, organising us isn't your job, and you will just cause confusion if you try to take on someone else's job"; when you're told off for helping a patient, say "Excuse me, I decided Percy could do with some help, don't you think you should be doing your own work rather than getting involved in mine?"

itrytomakemyway · 31/12/2021 09:48

Given that she has already put in complaints about other staff when she was training she clearly knows exactly what the systems are and will use them every time. I worked with someone like this. They very much made certain that their rights were upheld. Every tiny thing that happened - real or perceived, was logged. They certainly kept HR busy. This person was a nightmare to work with, not suited to the job they were in, would not listen to advice and took everything as a criticism. Saw everything as bullying.

It meant that people were genuinely afraid to work with him. After a couple of years he moved on to another job. Work became a less tense place to be.

Be very careful with everything you say and do. The mug incident and the name calling they are bullying - whether you like this woman or not. When the penny drops with her (and it will) the results will not be good. This is a person who knows their rights and is not in work to make friends. From the examples you have given it seems that she has not said or done anything wrong per se, but it is her manner and tone that upset people. At the end of the day she will have a case.

Do not 'hide' or 'break' the mug. Distance yourself for anyone gossiping or complaining about her. You have passed on your concerns to management - they chose to do nothing so you have done what you could. Log the date and content of your conversation with writing at home somewhere. You may need that reminder of what you said and when if she does end up making a complaint.

Vanishun · 31/12/2021 09:52

I'm autistic, and it sounds like she could be on the spectrum to me too.

You say she's well-meaning but also rule-abiding and extremely particular, she doesn't seem to understand social conduct or the unwritten rules of how to behave in the workplace, and is taking time off now after hurtling head first in and getting it all wrong. All of that rings massive bells for me.

Whether she is or not, I really feel for her. She needs a good mentor and a good workplace.

DukkaTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly · 31/12/2021 10:00

This should have been nipped in the bud as a student, but it wasn’t. But instead, students are passed and sent to their next placement because some mentors don’t like dealing with difficult students (and I know it’s not easy). Then we complain when we have to work with them after they’re employed.

WomanStanleyWoman · 31/12/2021 14:40

[quote Dangermouse5]@LibbyVonTrap
Your examples of her bossiness are

⁃	A time Sid suggested best use of skill set to  a nurse who could get on with medication round whilst as rest of you stood around waiting to hand out patient meals

⁃	Sid Organising the shift, - if no one else is doing it isn’t that normal practice to have clear responsibilities of who does what and agree it yourselves ?

⁃	Pointing out to you that a patient is independent and should be encouraged to wash himself - was she right or respectful in how she did this in front of patient? Could Percy use bowl or go to bathroom independently to wash himself? Patients in hospital fare less well if encouraged to stay in bed but she can choose to be be encouraging rather than dismissive 

Everyone has bought into what you said OP that she’s unnecessarily bossy and bit of a bully herself. But in your examples it sounds like she’s using her uni learning to critically reflect on what seems laxidaisical practice on your ward. Is it just how she says it? It was a bit of a (unintended) drip feed to say that she has gone back to uni to complain about poor practice on the ward and seek advice how to deal with it. You expect any profession training student to do that.

So it sounds like her edges need to be softened but that you may need to be better organised on the ward, [/quote]
But as many posters have pointed out, attitude is everything here. If the HCA/ex-student feels there are things that could be improved, she could raise this with her supervisor. If she really felt she had to raise it directly with the OP or other colleagues, she could have done it in private - i.e. ‘Are you sure Percy still needs help? Maybe let him try it on his own tomorrow’ rather than contradicting the OP in front of him (and also completely failing to acknowledge that he may have felt he needed help, even if he might have been okay with gentle encouragement). Who knows - the OP might still have felt annoyed. But she could have at least had a chance to reflect on the advice rather than just feeling publicly criticised.

As for ‘using her uni learning’, from what the OP says, she hasn’t even finished the course yet (and may not do if she’s working as an HCA instead of completing). Would you appreciate your years of on the job learning being belittled because someone had partially completed a degree? I speak as someone who went straight from BA to MA, and therefore didn’t work full-time until the age of 22, and got a bit of a rude shock when I realised how much I didn’t know in my first job.

Georgeskitchen · 31/12/2021 15:34

I'm.wondering why qualified nurses are tolerating this? I'm.wondering why any of you are tolerating this woman's behaviour? Marching in and giving everyone tasks? Isn't that the job of the senior nurse on Duty?. It all seems very strange! Is she the trust chairman's daughter or something?

Hankunamatata · 31/12/2021 15:40

I'd buy her a new mug and bin the other one.

lottiegarbanzo · 31/12/2021 16:27

My suspicion is that, given the obviously poor management on this ward, the staff have become lazy and ill-disciplined. Too much hanging about chatting, making up names for people, not enough of doing the right kind of work.

The student is up-to-date in best practice, in theoretical terms at least, so notices all of this and knows how things ought to be done better.

The problem is in the way she expresses that, who she expresses it to and what happens when she does. That is, when she's raised issues with the manager, nothing has changed. Whereas when she pulls up individual team members, they jump to her tune (presumably because they know they're doing / not doing the right thing and feel guilted into action).

Hence all hanging around the lunches when there was other, higher priority work to be done. Because if it wasn't time for the ward round and that wasn't a higher priority, the nurse she'd pulled up would have said 'it isn't time for the ward round, we do that after lunch, as you know', or similar.

The problem is management. The student is right but also annoying.

So what should you do OP?

Distance yourself from the bullying. You're dead right to feel uncomfortable about that. Say out loud to colleagues that you're not happy about the nickname and mug and that it feels uncomfortably like bullying to you.

Keep a diary of incidents. Write down that you've said the above, the date and to whom, for example. Write down every issue you've raised with managers, date and their response.

Keep reporting issues to managers, for them to deal with. Only real issues, not gossip or opinions. It doesn't matter whether they feel they can bothered to do their job or not. It certainly isn't your job to do it for them. So you have no choice but to pass issues up the chain.

Look for another job in a better team. At some point, shit is going to hit fan in this one and the fallout may be messy and unpleasant.

LibbyVonTrap · 31/12/2021 16:28

@Hankunamatata

I'd buy her a new mug and bin the other one.
She’d want it replaced with the exact same mug. Honestly she is very funny about stuff like this, touching that mug now that she’s attached to it is a no go
OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 31/12/2021 16:29

Also, get this thread deleted, if any of the details resemble reality.

Iwouldlikesomecake · 31/12/2021 16:33

You need to go to your freedom to speak up guardian if you have one. It sounds like she’s a nightmare but that she is now on the receiving end of the bullying too.

KittenCatcher · 31/12/2021 16:44

Why isnt the nurse in charge allocating the work each shift and handing over who needs help. She is right about the med round though, why are staff including the staff nurse just standing around waiting to serve meals.

Swipe left for the next trending thread