Bossy woman at work - bullying

[LibbyVonTrap]

I’m a HCA on a hospital ward. Early this year a student nurse joined the ward and she was bossy as hell, ordered all the HCAs and patients around and even tried to boss the qualified nurses around. She continuously wrote incident reports/Datix about people and tried to change various aspects of the way the ward was run. She was a 2nd year. She drove us all mad and one of the other HCAs complained about her in the end to the charge nurse. Charge nurse had a word with her and she promptly reported charge nurse and the HCA to HR. She was an absolute nightmare.
Anyway, her placement finished thankfully and she left. However she has now returned as a HCA!!! She immediately tried to boss everyone around again as soon as she came back and one of the HCAs snapped at her and said “you bossed me around as a student, you’re not bossing me around as a HCA”. Naturally she immediately reported her.

Since then charge nurse has spoken to everyone saying the situation is difficult but we just have to learn to get along with her as she technically isn’t doing anything wrong. One of the male nurses pointed out that she looks like Sid from Ice Age and this has become her nickname. I was bullied as a child and I’m uncomfortable with this. I have spoken to charge nurse who snapped at me and said she’s sick to death of complaints both from and about this woman.
For Christmas one of the nurses bought her a mug with Sid on it. She doesn’t know this is her nickname so she’s proudly using it every day at work and doesn’t appear to have noticed the sniggering etc.

The whole thing is driving me mad!! If I tell her all hell with break loose. If I don’t I feel guilty and on edge.

AIBU to turn a blind eye and tell myself she kind of brought it on herself? It’s making me want to leave my job.

Some students go on the bank as hcas for some extra money and more experience. Although she may have left the course too!

She sounds like an absolute nightmare. But the bullying mug is horrible. And a completely stupid thing to do if it is uncovered. They could get into serious trouble. At least you have raised it OP. But the manager who has failed to deal with it could lose their job. We have recently had something similar in my workplace which has lead to mass suspensions. I would be having a word with them myself and warn them to stop it but I understand that this could be difficult.

@DukkaTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly

Why when she was on placement did the nurse in charge not go through the university?

What happened to her being a nurse if she’s got a job as an hca?

The student (as she was then) reported the ward to the university as she had concerns regarding practice!! So in a sense she got in there first and I would imagine any report about her after that would have come across as malicious

She tells patients that it’s our job to promote their independence not babysit them etc!!
Well the initial part of that's right. Maybe not the delivery! We are meant to promote independence where safe. You must know about 'pyjama paralysis' etc

Don't join in with the bullying but don't feel the need to whistleblow it to nightmare woman either.

As for the rest, surely a nurse would answer her 'order' with 'you're not my manager', rather than 'scuttle off' and do as she suggests. Why are people following the 'instructions' of a junior staff member? That is just plain weird.

Put the mug in the bin.

Continue to go to the charge nurse and ask them to confirm if your should be doing XYZ that the HCA is telling you to do. They may be sick of dealing with issues around this HCA, but that is their job.

Perhaps go to HR yourself and tell them the HCA is overstepping and trying to manage you. If you get in first with HR, then if she does go and complain they will already have spoken to you.

Well the ward should have gone to the university with their complaints, they haven’t helped themselves there.

This is why you have to have a clear pathway in their paperwork if they’re failing (and attitude is part of it), else the university make it very very hard to fail them. Goodness knows they make it impossible enough.

Honestly, the more you say, the more I think the staff and management on your ward need to grow up and do their jobs.

Why are they all running scared of a student / junior? Is there some mass lack of confidence in their own ability and professionalism?

If I were you I'd be looking for a different job, because your colleagues and managers sound like incompetent babies.

@MichelleScarn

She tells patients that it’s our job to promote their independence not babysit them etc!! Well the initial part of that's right. Maybe not the delivery! We are meant to promote independence where safe. You must know about 'pyjama paralysis' etc

Absolutely but it’s the way she says it! This is the thing, she isn’t wrong in what she says - it’s just the way she goes about it. Even the patients call her Matron (in a sarky way)

So has anyone addressed this with her? That's why she's on placement.

I agree with PP that it sounds like your Band 6s and 7s need to get a grip. Specifically on her and possibly more generally on running the ward.

The mug is horrible, particularly as it’s supposedly targeting her looks rather than her behaviour, and is unacceptable bullying whichever way you look at it. I’d do what PP have suggested - “accidentally” drop the mug and then bring in a decent replacement to ‘apologise’ for breaking it.

In terms of her embarrassing you on the shop floor - well that’s on you to set appropriate boundaries. I would have finished helping Percy and then asked for a quiet word, out of patient and other staff earshot, and made it clear I didn’t appreciate her efforts to ‘help’ and she’ll stick to doing her own tasks in future, thank you. Polite but very firm.

@lottiegarbanzo

Honestly, the more you say, the more I think the staff and management on your ward need to grow up and do their jobs.

Why are they all running scared of a student / junior? Is there some mass lack of confidence in their own ability and professionalism?

If I were you I'd be looking for a different job, because your colleagues and managers sound like incompetent babies.

Agree with this The "meeting" with all staff to essentially criticise the employee yet at the same time say "we've just got to put up with it" sounds very unprofessional on the part of management. Were minutes taken of this meeting? Based on what the OP has said, the HCA may get up people's noses, but has done nothing wrong. Management sound atrocious, and the whole bullying - Sid thing I hope gets found out and the person/people responsible get their arses handed to them.

The mug is horrific and bullying and everyone who doesn't speak up is being complicit. I would tell HR in writing ASAP.
None of her ideas seem bad/wrong. She's just not good at sharing them well.
Could she be autistic?
Even if she's not, there's nothing to stop you approaching her and saying "Hey you were right about Percy being able to wash himself, but I was helping him because xyz. I didn't want to say that out loud in front of him. If you're not sure why I'm doing something in future would you ask me in private."

We have one like this shes a bloody nightmare. New graduate. I told her in a calm way that she has alienated the entire department and she needs to learn some people skills. Shes a bit better since then. However shes an anti vaxxer so shes getting the boot in April thank god.

I'd ensure the mug gets lost.
She sounds dreadful, but bullying her looks is vile and I'd say so to whoever bought it.
Don't tell her. You'll end up in front of HR

@ThesecondLEM

Nor your circus, not your monkeys

Well, that’s a very helpful comment!

YABU to call a women bossy or matron. These are words used to label women who show assertiveness or are a little too agressive to fi the normal expectations of how women should behave.
You need to think more carefully about what exactly is the problem.
It sounds like she is right about what she says. People don’t like being called out. And they don’t like being called out by someone at a lower or similar grade. That’s not unreasonable or surprising . This women is probably more task focused than people focused. She is probably frustrated that the rest of team is messing around at times rather than cracking on with tasks . She may not have such great social skills to be able to approach this with you all.
This needs to be raised with your boss in a balanced way. Fist record the issues this individual is calling out and when, is it fair? Is she right? If that is the case then manager needs to review this in terms of defining ways of working and expectations. The second issue is then working with the women as development on how to manage her frustrations in working with team member who have different personality types that are less task focused and maybe more people focused. Making her aware of it is first step. Without resorting to sexual stereotype name calling like bossy.
Yes she will be aware that she is having difficulty getting along and be hurt by it. She just wants to get the job done and be good at what she does.

@violetbunny

It sounds like a nightmare, but I would just keep well clear of it. If she bosses you personally around, just say "I will not be doing that", or "I do not take instructions from you as I report to X, if you think Y needs doing then please speak to them". Keep it factual and polite. I would just ignore your childish colleagues making fun of her, it's not on but I really would just leave them all to it.

This is the best advice on the thread. A completely factual, unemotional ‘I take my instructions from my line manager’ or similar is what’s needed here. She is clearly the type to argue the toss with anyone who suggests she is bossy or out of line, but she cannot argue with ‘X is my manager’. Repeat it as often as it takes.

Your colleague made a very stupid mistake with the mug, as it gives this woman a genuine case to claim she’s being bullied. If you tell her, any chance of getting her called up on her behaviour is gone - ‘But I was bullied!’ will become her catch-all answer to any criticism. Say nothing and concentrate on the real issues affecting you.

I know people are saying to misplace the mug but she would be genuinely upset as she loves it and would probably see that in itself as a bullying move. She’s very VERY particular with her stuff and doesn’t like anyone touching anything of hers so I couldn’t even make out that I’d borrowed it and accidentally broken it.

@PicaK

The mug is horrific and bullying and everyone who doesn't speak up is being complicit. I would tell HR in writing ASAP. None of her ideas seem bad/wrong. She's just not good at sharing them well. Could she be autistic? Even if she's not, there's nothing to stop you approaching her and saying "Hey you were right about Percy being able to wash himself, but I was helping him because xyz. I didn't want to say that out loud in front of him. If you're not sure why I'm doing something in future would you ask me in private."

Agree with this the things you've complained about so far she is right from your description. If a patient can safely wash/dress independently, yes promote this. If there's a whole bunch of staff hanging about waiting to hand out lunch trays when meds need to be given out, why would one of the nurses who should be doing meds stand in a queue to wait about? Is it really that your ward is one of those 'tight knit' ones (which yes can be good) but you don't like newbies or intruders?!

Get rid of mug asap. What age is she? 19?
However if you all feel intimidated by her bossiness then address this with management and don't be afraid of her complaining also/getting in there first. Complain en masses. Every time she says something in an intimidating/bossy or threatening manner, complain. Each snd every incident should be documented in writing

Agree with this the things you've complained about so far she is right from your description. If a patient can safely wash/dress independently, yes promote this. If there's a whole bunch of staff hanging about waiting to hand out lunch trays when meds need to be given out, why would one of the nurses who should be doing meds stand in a queue to wait about?

The point is that it’s not this woman’s place to say any of this. If she has genuine concerns, she should report these to the relevant manager privately. Criticising a colleague in front of a patient is unacceptable.

You have to wonder about the empathy levels of the person who did this or anyone who thinks it is funny. It doesn't paint these staff in a good light at all.

Your (bad) managers have created a monster, that is now coming back to bite them. She should have been managed properly as a student, by her mentor and, as necessary, management, in conjunction with the university.

You cannot complain about her 'bossiness' and tactlessness after the event, if you didn't pull her up on it at the time. You are all putting her in a horrible position. You jump to her orders (why?), fail to speak to her when she oversteps or is tactless to patients, then bitch about her amongst yourselves afterwards.

n.b. The difference between constructive criticism and bitching is primarily whether you say it to the person's face. Then there's how you say it. Even complaints are made to people in the first instance, not about them. (You're 'complaining' about the tactless way she addresses patients and staff, yet none of you has the tact and interpersonal skills necessary to talk to her? Pot meet kettle).

If and when a manager speaks to her about her behaviour, she will say, quite rightly, 'but I've always worked like this, as a student and in my job and no-one has ever said there's a problem'.

It's not just that you've failed to complain and your managers to deal with it. It's that by dancing to her tune you all positively encouraging her to behave this way. You are collectively setting her up. Which is horrible of you all and incompetent of your managers.

You are collectively colluding to create a monster. This will only get worse.