MN and their approach to autism

[HypocrisyHere]

I have attached two screenshots. One showing the two threads I’m watching, the other the deletion message from the first watched thread which was deleted.

The subjects of the two threads are

(1) Any ‘positive’ autism stories?
(2) Married to someone with Asperger’s: support thread 5

My confusion is that the first was deleted because “the title was not in spirit of the site” Yet thread 2 - which has (IMO) a deeply offensive as it implies all people with Asperger’s are a problem in a relationship (leaving aside the ghastly ableism within the thread) is absolutely fine?

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted. Thread 2 is for concerned partners who can blame every poor behaviour of their partners on autism and that’s all fine?

As an autistic person this makes no sense to me at all and highlights not only ableism within MNHQ but also a deeply inconsistent approach to moderation?

(Have name changed as I’m a coward)

I have never understood the whole hoora about language: I don't care if someone describes me as autistic or a person with autism. What matters is how I am treated by society, which is pretty rotten.

I really wish Autism wasn't under one single
Umbrella. This is where the huge confusion and disagreements and hurt comes from.
Asd level 1,2 and 3 is much too broad. They need to be separated as completely different diagnoses or at least Sub headings depending on which comorbidities accompany such as
Non verbal autism A
Non verbal autism B
Social autism A
Social autism B
Anxiety related autism A
Anxiety related autism B
Intellectually disabled autism A
Intellectual disabled autism B
Hypermobility associated autism A
Hypermobility associated autism B
Multifaceted autism A
Multifaceted Autism B

Now not those titles exactly,they are not correct but just using as a quick example,

I am an autistic adult with 3 autistic children who couldn't be more different. It is extremely difficult for me to get the necessary support because most healthcare professionals, mostly all
IMO, are confused and ill equipped with the Knowledge they need for each uniquely different autistic person. Labels are essential to move forward, as people familiarise with the various types then autistic people will be much more understood

@doadeer that’s interesting re the Facebook groups and just shows how different we all are!
I do not have an autistic son. I have a son with autism. He is so much more than “an autistic son” and I really dislike it when it’s phrased that way.

@RussianSpy101 whereas I don't have autism. It's not a cold or disease.
I am autistic. Its just part of who I am. Just like I am female, I am 30 and I am a brunette.

@HerRoyalHappiness I think that’s why it’s important it isn’t generalised. We all feel differently about it and whichever phrasing we prefer is absolutely valid.

@Caramellatteplease

Very true, this is why most threads involving autism end in a row

It's why living with autism can be highly conflictual too

To give a real lived example DS might want to cross a road, I dont want him too. He might not see why my need outweighs his. The fact theres an oncoming car isnt relevant to him he needs to get to his destination...

Most NT people can balance theirs and other peoples needs better. They do so millions of time a day. Sometimes they might choose to put their needs first, sometimes they put others first. It's a ongoing balance often unconscious.

But you can guarantee they definitely would put their need to cross a road above some one wanting them to stop them. They are way less likely to end up in front of a moving car as a result.

I understand every interaction is a negotion and a compromise.things that would be normal are already a compromise to DS. If he could be sat alone playing computer with food arriving 3 times a day and me somewhere in the house he is utterly happy in life, everything else (except for disney and theme park visits) are a compromise . Given the need to compromise so much, there is little understanding as to when to "compromise" and when to not. If he is in a dentist chair, why is his need for painkillers more important than the dentists need to get on with it. It's easier to say nothing despite the increased pain (Yes weve been there too).

One day I might be arguing with DS why he shouldn't walk in front of a car the other why he might want to tell the Dentist hes in pain and pause the filling...

And on the whole I'm dealing with these obvious compromises, as you become an adult the compromises become more challenging and complex, especially when they involve money or your own slightly fragile sense of self.

OP you may not see why these "negative" threads need to exist. They do not support you and cause you pain. Why should you compromise your needs and pain for others needs and pain?

That is totally part of autism and ironically why such threads are necessary

Excellent post

@Devilmakes3

As others have said, yes our behaviours can cause issues for NTs but what is never acknowledged - for me at least - is that every single working day their behaviour impacts negatively on me (and I don’t think I’m the only autistic person who will say that) But because they are the vast majority, their behaviour is assumed to be right and mine to be wrong. So I spend all my working life trying to behave as neurotypically as possible and that is exhausting and soul-destroying

My DS is diagnosed with ASD my DD we suspect has it and she points out a version of the above to me on a regular basis. Good on her I like knowing her inside world as best I can and I appreciate when she tells me a bit more about her perspectives and needs.

This is SO true. Being autistic for many is only a disability because the world is designed by NT people for NT people. If the proportions happened to be the other way around, being NT might well be classified as a disability. Either way around, it would only be a lack of understand and appropriate compromises that make it so. People could just make it ok for everybody, if they wanted to.

Yanbu. The "support" thread is nasty. Full of ableism and people confusing male privilege, misogyny and shitty behaviour with autism. I have raised several times how awful it is and been shut down.

I'm autistic and one of my children is too.

I knew almost nothing about autism and eventually discovered that XH's family believed he had "high-functioning" autism. Whatever that is.

As it turned out, XH was diagnosed with NPD. I felt badly that my first impression of autism was so negative and worse, absolutely false! Then one of closest friends discovered she had two children on the spectrum and I informed myself.❤️

@IncompleteSenten

I hate it.

The attitude that arsehole=autism has crept into the site and into people's heads which is really wrong.

On every thread about a male partner being a dick you will have at least one person and normally more saying is he on 'The Spectrum'? Sounds like he is autistic...

When the op has not described anything that is an indicator of autism.

It pisses me off so much. The ignorance about autism and the damage this bollocks is doing to how people with autism are seen.

Absolutely this. I hope all of the people writing those hateful threads - who are clearly in very unhappy relationships and desperately trying to rationalise why it has failed rather than just have the strength to leave and move on - read your comment and realise the immense damage they are doing from their totally unscientific generalising and demonising of an entire community of people who bear no resemblance to what they describe.

Most NT people can balance theirs and other peoples needs better.

Bitter experience of living in the world they have designed for themselves and the society they think is good, begs to differ. The wars, the violence, the total lack of any rationality in policy making, the "othering" of anybody different, adversarial politics.

Meanwhile it seems that many of the geniuses across arts and scientists that have made life better for everybody were autistic,

@merrymelodies

I knew almost nothing about autism and eventually discovered that XH's family believed he had "high-functioning" autism. Whatever that is.

As it turned out, XH was diagnosed with NPD. I felt badly that my first impression of autism was so negative and worse, absolutely false! Then one of closest friends discovered she had two children on the spectrum and I informed myself.❤️

You shouldn't feel bad! That was your first exposure and the diagnosis was wrong. There are lots of us on the spectrum here so feel free to ask any questions you might have.

OP you may not see why these "negative" threads need to exist. They do not support you and cause you pain. Why should you compromise your needs and pain for others needs and pain?

This is so fucking offensive it's unbelievable. This is exactly the type of bullshit post the OP was talking about I think.

The idea that autistic people aren't empathetic is a myth. It has been thoroughly debunked. In fact most have too much empathy. They feel all of the pain in the world more strongly, just like they do with all other senses hence sensory overload.

Your comment is absolutely typical of the totally discriminatory rubbish that is repeatedly posted here. Autistic people have difficulty communicating with NT people. Communicating difficulties have nothing to do with what you feel. It's utter nonsense to say this. Lots of my autistic friends are the kindest, most honest and loyal people I have ever met.

If somebody posted that black people have less empathy that white people, would that stand MMHQ?

This is disgusting.

@TheCatsKilledTheGonks

OP you may not see why these "negative" threads need to exist. They do not support you and cause you pain. Why should you compromise your needs and pain for others needs and pain?

This is so fucking offensive it's unbelievable. This is exactly the type of bullshit post the OP was talking about I think.

The idea that autistic people aren't empathetic is a myth. It has been thoroughly debunked. In fact most have too much empathy. They feel all of the pain in the world more strongly, just like they do with all other senses hence sensory overload.

Your comment is absolutely typical of the totally discriminatory rubbish that is repeatedly posted here. Autistic people have difficulty communicating with NT people. Communicating difficulties have nothing to do with what you feel. It's utter nonsense to say this. Lots of my autistic friends are the kindest, most honest and loyal people I have ever met.

If somebody posted that black people have less empathy that white people, would that stand MMHQ?

This is disgusting.

Nicely put.

I'd like to clarify the myth about empathy. There are two types of empathy: cognitive and affective. In the former, people are not able to recognise people's emotions through their facial expressions. In the latter, once people know how other people are feeling, they have the an appropriate emotional response.

People on the spectrum often lack cognitive empathy but their affective empathy is like everyone else's.

I knew almost nothing about autism and eventually discovered that XH's family believed he had "high-functioning" autism. Whatever that is.

Wait. What? An armchair diagnosis was wrong? How could that be?

@AlfonsoTheGoat I have admitted to my ignorance and apologized for my shortcomings. I've educated myself. Is there something else I could do? Please enlighten me.

Did you see my post of 16:40?

@TheCatsKilledTheGonks

OP you may not see why these "negative" threads need to exist. They do not support you and cause you pain. Why should you compromise your needs and pain for others needs and pain?

This is so fucking offensive it's unbelievable. This is exactly the type of bullshit post the OP was talking about I think.

The idea that autistic people aren't empathetic is a myth. It has been thoroughly debunked. In fact most have too much empathy. They feel all of the pain in the world more strongly, just like they do with all other senses hence sensory overload.

Your comment is absolutely typical of the totally discriminatory rubbish that is repeatedly posted here. Autistic people have difficulty communicating with NT people. Communicating difficulties have nothing to do with what you feel. It's utter nonsense to say this. Lots of my autistic friends are the kindest, most honest and loyal people I have ever met.

If somebody posted that black people have less empathy that white people, would that stand MMHQ?

This is disgusting.

Just a quick jump back in to say thank you for posting this. 100% agree.

I compromise my needs every fucking day for neurotypicals and it causes me pain every day. And I feel VERY guilty and humiliated if I have to ask them to make even minor accommodations (such as please give me complicated instructions in writing rather than verbally relating them to me).

Perhaps it this poster’s neurotypicality that’s making them oblivious to the extent of their ableism?

(no it’s not, there are plenty lovely, lovely NTs this poster’s obliviousness is caused by ignorance and prejudice)

@AlfonsoTheGoat Perhaps you could do some self reflection about why you felt the need to respond with such gratuitous hostility to my post.

One of the reasons threads always end in arguments is because there isn't a universal experience, although some challenges and aspects are similar for many, everyone is of course different yet some seem determined to have their experience heard the loudest. The comment about parents of autistic children wading in the opposite is also true, there have been threads looking for support and people have commented how wrong they are or how horrible it is that they are asking; how about everyone respects others experiences and need for support?

@TheCatsKilledTheGonks

OP you may not see why these "negative" threads need to exist. They do not support you and cause you pain. Why should you compromise your needs and pain for others needs and pain?

This is so fucking offensive it's unbelievable. This is exactly the type of bullshit post the OP was talking about I think.

The idea that autistic people aren't empathetic is a myth. It has been thoroughly debunked. In fact most have too much empathy. They feel all of the pain in the world more strongly, just like they do with all other senses hence sensory overload.

Your comment is absolutely typical of the totally discriminatory rubbish that is repeatedly posted here. Autistic people have difficulty communicating with NT people. Communicating difficulties have nothing to do with what you feel. It's utter nonsense to say this. Lots of my autistic friends are the kindest, most honest and loyal people I have ever met.

If somebody posted that black people have less empathy that white people, would that stand MMHQ?

This is disgusting.

What’s even more disgusting is the trend on MN by people like you constantly conflating any developmental disorder and neurological diversity with being ‘black’, aka ‘Just slot black in there!’ thinking you are making a good point.

Being black is not a neuro diversity, we are as a fully human and capable with all our 5 senses as the precious ‘whites’ are. Within that we also have people who are neuro diverse, just like you really. Shocking!

I agree @Floyi, its next level ignorance isn't it. Also in response to that poster, it hasn't been disproven that autism in some results in the inability to empathise. It doesn't mean this is the case for all, or that they are horrible people, or anything like that, but it is true. There's a lot of rewriting to fit in with personal experience but it's such a wide and encompassing thing that it's not possible.q

@Floyi Very well said.

I'm sorry that you even had to point that out @Floyi - people are just ignorant.

This isn't about ignorance. Autistic people are a minority and we experience prejudice like other minorities. If people post offensive and unpleasant things about other minorities and this isn't permitted, why is it permitted to be offensive about autistic people?