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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Gillick competence

85 replies

putthatdown · 28/12/2021 21:24

My DD had a large mole on her neck and we were able to get an appt to have it removed. At the pre-op meeting the dr asked my DD who is 10 what she preferred a general or local pain relief? She then asked me. DD said general as she wanted to go to sleep. I said local and the Dr wrote down General. Has the world gone completely mad. Since when did medics expect a 10yr old to know what pain relief they should have? Since when did my say as a parent become irrelevant. I feel like my role as a parent is being undermined and that the state is now taking responsibility for every area of my childs thinking! Scary times

OP posts:
RosesAndHellebores · 28/12/2021 21:26

Seems reasonable to me. God help you if your dd develops mh problems before she's 18.

nocoolnamesleft · 28/12/2021 21:26

Well...she's the one who would have to stay absolutely still, and not move, or panic, or get hysterical whilst it's happening...

Hellocatshome · 28/12/2021 21:27

I was told that Gillick competence is rarely applied to children under about 12. Did the Doctor explain the pros and cons to you both so DD could make an informed decision?

FOJN · 28/12/2021 21:27

Are you in the UK? I'm surprised the NHS would offer a GA if it was possible to do a procedure under local.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 28/12/2021 21:28

Were the pros and cons of each explained?

XenoBitch · 28/12/2021 21:28

YABU
You were not being undermined at all. Your DD was deemed to be Gillick competent, and her input was sought. What would you think would happen if your DD had wanted a local, and you wanted her to have a GA?

DewDropsonKittens · 28/12/2021 21:28

Why wouldn't you want your child to make a decision on what happens to their body?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 28/12/2021 21:28

Child doesn't want to be awake whilst they stick needles in her neck and chop her about. Doctor accepts her preference because fear would make her more likely to withdraw her consent, scream, cry, kick or move around.

Mum is apparently happy with all that, along with the doctors holding her down by force whilst wielding a scalpel.

Tricky. Can't imagine why the doctors would consider the person who is actually having the procedure more than somebody else.

MrsMcGarry · 28/12/2021 21:29

Well when you obviously can’t listen to your child thank goodness someone from “the state” is willing to do so.

Flossieskeeper · 28/12/2021 21:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

user1471517900 · 28/12/2021 21:31

The state is responsible for your child's thinking because they.......

..... asked your child what they wanted......

AliceW89 · 28/12/2021 21:33

There isn’t enough information in this story. If an explanation of both options was given and your DD was allowed time to weigh up the pros and cons and make a decision, then YABU. If it was literally ‘do you want a general or a local’, then she may still be competent to make her own decision, but I’d question the basis of which she made it.

Chimley · 28/12/2021 21:33

Why would a doctor overrule your DD's wishes if she has a clear and reasonable reason for her choice?

My DD9 refused to let a doctor lift up her t-shirt to look at her chest. Whilst it hindered diagnosis I also respected her right to say no. I explained why afterwards and next time she said yes because she understood why. Perhaps you could talk to and listen to your DD rather than assuming you know better than her? And feel free to throw legal precedents around but ultimately your DD will resent you overruling her without listening to her.

snapsieplopp · 28/12/2021 21:34

I'm surprised the choice was given tbh

Gladioli23 · 28/12/2021 21:36

Why wouldn't a ten year old know they wanted to be asleep for a minor operation?

Ten year olds seem perfectly old enough to be able to make a decision like that, and they're the one that has to keep their shit together if they're awake while the procedure occurs.

It would take basically all my self control as an adult to not freak out at someone conducting an operation on me would I was awake: why would you expect a child to be able to?

ShinyHappyPoster · 28/12/2021 21:36

YANBU Gillick competence is being used to allow under-age DCs to make decisions without their parent's consent and without any time taken to assess whether they are 'competent'.

It's quite worrying especially when viewed alongside other legal pushes to enable DCs to have treatment underage, to be assisted to have different identities that are kept secret from their parents and the resurgence of campaigns around paedophilia. There is a concerted push for very young DCs to be given bodily autonomy at the same time as there are powerful lobbies campaigning for DCs to be given life-altering medication and surgeries; and for them to be deemed able to consent to inappropriate relationships with adults. The medical profession really needs to look again at its safeguarding.

CoffeeRunner · 28/12/2021 21:37

The Dr will have felt general more appropriate so chose to agree with DD. He wouldn't have offered a general otherwise.

Had DD requested local & you general I imagine he may have sided with you.

cariadlet · 28/12/2021 21:40

The state isn't taking responsibility for your child's thinking; the dr was taking your child's own wishes into account.

My only concern would be whether the pros and cons of local and general anaesthetic were properly explained at a level which a ten year old could understand.

Noisyprat · 28/12/2021 21:43

Thank you @ShinyHappyPoster I came on to say this however you put it much better than I could have. I find it very worrying how often this is now used on younger and younger children, I also find it worrying how many parent son her see it normal and the child is asked and the parent ignored.

Porfre · 28/12/2021 21:44

I understand your worried.

But I'm not sure how you expect them to operate on a kid that might be kicking and screaming. Unless shes comfortable with the idea- which by her answer seems not. They aren't going to be able to operate.

The other option would be to wait til shes older if the surgery can wait. She might be able to handle the procedure better and get it done while awake.

Divebar2021 · 28/12/2021 21:44

I thought NICE guidelines for childrens decision making was 13 - (assumption that 13 is competent unless there is evidence to the contrary.) Overrall it’s down to the Dr to be satisfied about her competence to consent though not the parent. What I’m curious about is why you elected for local when your DD had made their decision around that. Did you have a conversation with her or just try to overrule her ?

Oinkypig · 28/12/2021 21:46

It’s not even particularly about Gillick Competence it is about involving the patient in the treatment plan. For adults and children even if they don’t have competence/capacity they can still have their voice heard and contribute.

I would imagine the surgeon was at the brink of just offering your child GA but because she seemed sensible and able to communicate her wishes he involved her, and then quite correctly listened to her views.

She sounds very sensible I would struggle having a mole removed from my neck under local!

CallMeNutribullet · 28/12/2021 21:47

How do you know what the Dr wrote down?

ShaneTheThird · 28/12/2021 21:49

This is a very weird thread.

One the one hand yes even children are able to have a say in their own medical treatment.

On the other why on earth would they even offer GA for a quick routine procedure when GA has such serious complications?!

shouldistop · 28/12/2021 21:49

Would you want to be awake whilst having a large mole removed from your neck?