To ask how you afford to live in London?

[seekinglondonlife]

Name changed regular as my family are on MN and I don't want my posting history linked.
We decided to do Christmas in London this year, we've had a crap year and just wanted to get away. We're staying in a fairly central hotel, have been travelling around and exploring by bus everyday and I feel like I really want to move here. The diversity, having shops open on a Sunday past 5pm, the atmosphere, the ability to choose 5 or 6 different ethnic restaurants on the same street. The public transport is fantastic.

I've been looking in so many estate agents windows and cannot get over the cost of rent/to buy a property. How do 'normal' people live here? I've been friendly with a few of the hotel staff, they've lived and worked in London for 20+ years and have raised their families here, but they are on NMW jobs, so how do they do it? Does everyone get housing benefit?

If you feel inclined please say roughly where you live and how much you pay for rent/mortgage. Also what are the downsides? (Apart from the cost of housing!)

TIA

Live in zone 4 in penge, bought st th bottom of last recession and got a 3 bed house. Commute to work or central is max 25 mins. I wouldnt move out of London, so much to do and see, great public transport, great council services ( my friends outside London have reduced services from the council like waste being collected every 3 weeks and having to make appointments at tips and only allowed certain number a year) sounds quite crap to me and they pay more council tax too!

Zone 4. Bought in 2019. Mortgage is a big chunck of outgoings despite sizeable deposit. We r both professionals. DH works full time I work 2-3 days a week flexible on some days. Would never do central London had my fill during uni days (went to UCL). We hardly ever go into central now cos we have so many great restaurants around us & things that keep us busy close to home. Though we r grateful that the option is there if we want. It had to be London because of the diversity and mix of people there and work. Nowhere outside London would have worked really.

We rented in Fulham. It was great but £1700 rent a month! We both worked full time so joint income 60k and no children, otherwise we wouldn't have survived.

It was fun while it lasted but we got away from it all and now have a £500 a month mortgage, I can afford to stay at home and look after our babies. I look back on our London life with fond memories but am very happy we made the change and there's no way I'd ever go back now that I'm a mum.

And very expensive multi million pound property in central London isn't bought by average families. No average family would start house hunting around Mayfair! It's mainly bought by foreign investors I think.

I moved to London in 2002. Lived in grotty house shares and then grotty studio but in 2005 bought a flat with parental help in zone 1 that accrued a lot of value. Met my now DH whose parents died when he was young, and he put his inheritance into our house in zone 2. Without help from my parents and his inheritance we absolutely could not have bought here and our house is quite tiny and has no garden. We just spent Christmas with his sister in her giant suburban house and I must admit I was quite jealous and sad that we will never ever have a house like this unless we leave London which I guess I can't countenance.

Yes it’s a bit like monopoly! Theses a huge house near us and I used to say ‘who can afford that??’ Then I read that it was a massive overseas criminal gang who owned it, and it was confiscated and sold off by the gvt.

@seekinglondonlife why would it be perplexing that someone would spend £600k on a 2 bed flat? there are people spending £1 million on a 2 bed flat like my mother's colleague who bought it for his son in st john's wood? His son was studying in London; a 5 bed house wherever you live is not likely to be that useful to him.

If you think about it based on GDP per capita (which is used to measure wealth of countries), inner london is similar to monaco, while south yorkshire is similar to cyprus. We wouldn't be surprised that a house in monaco would be more expensive than a house in cyprus so why be surprised about london versus other parts of the UK. London also attracts a lot of foreign investment and foreign expats;so the basis of comparison is with other countries. I come from singapore and a private condo is at least £1 million (though 85% of singaporeans do buy their flats from the government for as little as £200k). But if you compare the cost of private non government housing in London vs Singapore, you would find that london is quite reasonable compared to many cities out there! It is much cheaper than Tel Aviv where my SIL lives and where I cannot afford to buy anything for the price of my london flat (£400k).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_GRP_per_capita

Live in zone 2. Converted a one bedroom flat into a two bed. We have okay salaries but not high salaries and our mortgage is £1100.

You won't get social housing unless you are made priority homeless in the borough; serious social housing shortage makes this unlikely for most.

1. We worked very long hours and had a child later when the mortgage was paid off. Not at all unusual amongst friends, most people had children from mid-30s up, whereas outside London even early 20s still isn't unusual.
2. Bought further out, south of the Thames (very important for price), in less impressive area that appreciated and compromised on the house: again not unusual, most of our friends settled somewhere along the way for whatever combo of location, size, house quality etc worked. Doing up / extending houses is still a big thing.
3. You can't earn a million then retire, that's just your basic house with the spending money and pensions to be earned too. So people still work who might on paper look like they'd be worth more, or they move to countryside or coast for early retirement to cash in the house money.
4. Still live further out with kids for more space and commute, plus better schools. The friends who are comfortable settled for less fancy housing with paid off mortgage, the ones who constantly stress about money are those who kept pushing up the property ladder and have daft mortgages as a result, having wasted small fortunes on stamp duty. They'll end up with more equity, but I really can't see how it's worth the stress of needing to keep up the high income when you'd really rather take pick your kid up from school and go to the playground once in a while.

Can I ask about gangs and how much of an issue this is? There was a thread not so long ago mentioning people leaving London due to gang associated crime, is this all over London or just in certain areas? I must say I've felt very safe here.

Gang crime is a complete non-issue. I've spent nearly two decades living in multiple London areas, including six years in Brixton, and never come remotely close to a "gang crime". As PP said, gang crime takes place between people in gangs, not people who are just living their lives. The only crime I've been the victim of in my time here was one low level burglary where I lost half a dozen DVDs. Oh, and I suppose we did get our catalytic converter nicked once.

Its very safe where I live (zone 3 london suburbs). I have lived in zone 1 and zone 2 too in my student days, including renting a room in a council block in camden. Nothing really...

My next question is do families raise several children in a flat?

Yep. NHS consultant, husband on similar salary, and we’re in a small 2BR flat in Brixton. Colleagues who own houses either a) bought 20 years ago when salaries were basically the same but houses cost about half what they do now, b) are married to somebody working in finance earning upwards of £250k, or c) have significant financial assistance from their parents.

It would be nice to have a house with a garden, or more living space, but in essence we go to the park every day, do a lot of activities (swimming, rugby, gymnastics, tennis), and go on a lot of trips to the zoo, museums, woods and other places. The house is just a place to play quietly after tea, and to sleep. Any sign of boisterousness means it’s time to go out and do something.

I live in a larger than average 3 bed in Zone 4.

We are a mile from train and tube (opposite directions) with good bus links to further afield.

We bought a flat in 2009 after the crash in a desirable area for £235k with our savings and a gift from PIL. We moved 5 years later to where we are now as we made a lot on the flat but couldn’t afford a house there.

We’re in an unremarkable area which isn’t at all trendy but owing to the location the price keeps going up which is just stupid.

We bought for £385k 7 years ago and it’s probably ‘worth’ (HA) around £650k ish so it’s still a cheaper part of London. Mortgage is £1500

Even on our pretty decent salaries there’s zero chance we could afford to buy now.

If you look at Hayes, Hillingdon, Uxbridge it's a bit cheaper 3 bed semi/garage for 475-500. X90 Bus that goes straight into Victoria Stn and 427 607 that goes the whole of the Uxbridge Road into Shepherds Bush

We loved out 4 years ago. Managed to afford to live there as DH's step-father bought a terraced house in east London. It was a rough area which was 'transformed' the Olympics. We paid him a low rent and he made a good profit when he sold it...

We couldnt afford to buy a house despite both DH and I having professional jobs so loved to the Midlands. For the price of a two bed flat in East London we bought a four bed house with with big garden.

I miss London an awful lot. Haven't been able to visit as much as I would like due to Covid but love going back.

Having a newborn and living in London was amazing. So many great and free facilities. Loved it!

I live in zone 2 on the river. £640 mortgage, rented my spare room out for £950 incl bills before I had a baby. I earn £70k so it doesn't seem that much.

[quote seekinglondonlife]@KittenKong I went for a walk yesterday in Hyde Park area and fell in love with the mews houses. Then saw an estate agent advertising them for £3-4m! DH and I were wondering who on earth lived in them and how they can afford them![/quote]
Millionaires live there! Literally!

Moved not loved sorry

When I first moved to London, when I was in my mid 20s I afforded it by sharing a flat with other people. Later on I bought a one bedroom flat in zone 4. I moved out of London when I decided I wanted more space than a one bedroom flat.

It’s a diverse city so you have varying incomes and standards of living from super rich to very poor.

I had help from family to buy a two bed ex council flat in zone 2 for £320k in 2013. I rented out the spare room and that always covered the mortgage so I could save up a bit. Met my now DH after that and he bought a 1 bed flat in zone 5 for £250k. Last year we sold mine for £400k and his for £255k and bought a large 3 bed house in zone 3 in what used to be considered a slightly grotty area, but is now on the up. We have an enormous garden (unusual) and lots of green space around, but can be in central London in 25 minutes. We aren’t high earners for London (take home around £5k between us a month) and our mortgage is £1500. We absolutely love living here and wouldn’t want to move, but we may be forced to when DC are secondary school age as our borough doesn’t have fantastic schools.

@seekinglondonlife I live near golders green and am Jewish.

A lot of younger Jews are moving out to Borehamwood. But its still 350k for a 2 bed house near elstree and borehamwood station and I calculated that it would be cheaper for me to buy a 400k flat in East Finchley rather than pay for the 2 X season tickets from zone 6 to zone 1 as we both work in the city. If you have more children, it probably makes sense!

A lot of Jews have inheritance and help from family. DH's mum did not charge us rent for 3 years so we saved 70k. We have a friend whose parents downsized (£1 million house) so their children could buy houses. We also have a friend whose parents funded deposits for their houses. Remember north london jews have parents who got on the property ladder when it was cheap to do so as well as grandparents.

And most Jews (traditional and modern orthodox) don't have 7 kids. They have 2/3 kids. My DH's mum has 4 kids. She bought a 1 bed flat in 1989 and had 3 kids there before moving to a 3 bed terrace. I still think its possible for 2 young professionals to do so if they have parental help whether in terms of childcare or rent free living for a few year. I mean my MIL's neighbour almost sold his 3 bed terrace in 2019 to a young Jewish couple with kids (the mum is a teacher) and they were able to afford the £700k that he was selling it for. They would have bought it if the chain didn't break down...

We have 2 kids in a 2 bed flat in zone 2! It’s a squash but perfectly fine and well worth it for all the amazing things we have on our doorstep or a short tube/bus ride away. We afford it by having decent salaries and being lucky by buying when prices were relatively low.

Have lived in London 20 years and the worst crime I’ve personally experienced is having my handbag stolen from a pub. As people have said gang crime is not in my orbit, the chance of me or my family being affected by gangs is absolutely tiny.

We live in a flat in zone 1, owned outright. I'm on min wage and DH is a high earner. We have 2 dc in our flat but we plan to move to a house as we have dc3 on the way, but still in zone 1 or maybe 2.

My sisters and many school friends are still in zone 1 as they were allocated council housing - many zone 1 boroughs still have a high proportion of council flats, although you need to meet priority criteria and also understand how allocations work (my parents raised us in a council flat so it's knowledge we grew up with). They are in flats and they are a decent size and fine for raising a family in.

I rented a council flat in zone 1 as a single parent before I met DH which I bought and now rent out. The council rent on it now would be £480pm if I was still a tenant.

Gangs aren't an issue at all - I've lived on estates where gang culture was rife but it didn't affect our family at all, my dc rarely crossed paths with them.

I have a family member who lives in central London(WC1) in a 3 bed flat that was his parent’s council flat years ago. He was offered the chance to buy and did about 20 years ago.

How do poor people manage? One of the breakfast ladies told me both her and her husband are both hotel staff (so I assume NMW) and they have 3dc (all teens). They live 15 minutes walking distance from Hyde Park. Is the housing benefit very generous here? I was under the impression that families were being forced out of London due to benefit caps.