To not pay cleaner when sick so we can book a replacement

[whatkatydid2013]

We’ve had the same cleaner for quite some time & think she does a good job. Over the past couple of years we’ve had a number of times we’ve paid her when she hasn’t been able to come (1st lockdown for a couple of months & then several individual weeks when one of us was isolating as a close contact or when she was poorly). Last week she got in touch to say she couldn’t make it as she was ill & this week she’s been in touch to say she’s in hospital with covid and not sure when she might be back at work. We paid last week & this but I’ve suggested to OH maybe we pay next week but then stop until we hear back from her and sort out a cleaning service to come in the meantime. We can’t afford to pay both and while it’s obviously not her fault she caught covid I don’t want to get in the situation of having to do everything on my own (husband will ignore those jobs which is why we got a cleaner in the first place). AIBU to only cover 3 weeks of sick pay and then stop till she comes back?

Employee or self-employed?

Is she self employed?

Our cleaner won't accept payment if she cancels for any reason at all. I always thought that was normal but mn taught me that you're supposed to pay them if they're ill. So I think you are offering a very thoughtful and considerate compromise - payment for two weeks only seems fair to me.

We have never paid our cleaners if they don't come. The only exception has been if we have cancelled.

Nearly all cleaners I know are self employed. It's their business, they set their own rates. Unless you do her payroll for hours she works for you & ensure you work out & take off her her national insurance and tax that you send to HMRC , she'll be self employed.

Self employed don't get paid sick leave, nor paid annual leave, etc and are responsible for their own liability insurance NI and taxes.

So no you shouldn't be paying her sick leave!
Fgs stop.

Personally, I just can't see why you'd have to pay someone who hasn't done the work, regardless of reason. I wouldn't pay the guy who mows my lawn, my mobile hairdresser or anyone really if they didn't work due to illness or anything else. I'd assume they budgeted and planned for such things when they started their business. When I was a supply teacher I didn't get paid if I couldn't work. I know mn disagrees though.

I think you have been generous before but what you are offering now seems fair. The main thing is keep in contact with her. Poor soul being in hospital with covid, i hope she is ok.

My cleaner runs her own business, so I don't pay her if she doesn't come, she has factored sickness and holidays into her hourly rate. Anybody who is self employed should be doing that, why is it some people here think cleaners are too stupid to?

(The beginning of lockdown was different, I am talking about "normal" days when they don't or can't come)

You got a cleaner because your DH ignored cleaning jobs around the house? Is he 12?

@TheSmallAssassin

My cleaner runs her own business, so I don't pay her if she doesn't come, she has factored sickness and holidays into her hourly rate. Anybody who is self employed should be doing that, why is it some people here think cleaners are too stupid to?

(The beginning of lockdown was different, I am talking about "normal" days when they don't or can't come)

This!!!

I voted YABU assuming she is self employed, because you've paid on every other occasion and now that she's in hospital with covid you want to stop? That just sounds so harsh and horrible to her. If you do go ahead and stop, please give her some notice that you're going to do so. If she's hospital level ill she's unlikely to be able to sort anything alternative out very quickly.

I do appreciate you're not obliged to pay her sick pay and if it was for any other reason other than she's hospitalised I think you'd be fair enough to stop paying.

Can you really truly not afford a cleaner while paying her sick pay?

What about if you reduced her to half?

If S/E then no

why is it some people here think cleaners are too stupid too? no one is saying they are stupid ffs.

I just think if she's self employed she's not got the back up of a large company and if OP values her work she could offer to pay for a couple of weeks or even half rate. As a nice gesture. Covid is shit so a bit of support doesn't go amiss.

What does your contract with her say?

Mine is self employed but I offered to pay her for 4 weeks a year when she didn’t come for holiday or because of illness. What sparked it off really is that she’s very dependent on her weekly cleaning money and so wanted to always come even when our day fell on Xmas eve or a bank holiday or something.
It works well for us and I know she appreciates it. In theory she can use those 4 weeks for unplanned illness but in reality she’s hardly ever ill so uses them as planned holiday.
But I know I wouldn’t genuinely get someone else in. If you genuinely are going to then I think it’s reasonable to put a time limit on it although it’s not ideal to change things whilst she’s unwell in hospital and might have been expecting you to keep paying based on your last behaviour.

I think what you have done sounds very reasonable and fair.

When I had regular cleaners - and they had proved themselves reliable - we would usually pay for sick days etc because they were very rare. And the flexibility worked both ways in that they would do extra when I asked etc. We also paid through lockdown because our income was unchanged and it was hardly their fault they couldn’t come.

But for long term absence that is different, and paying 3 weeks is generous. Hopefully your cleaner will recover soon.

No my cleaner is a company but I don't pay if they can't come or I get a different one.

@oviraptor21

What does your contract with her say?

Who has a contract with a self-employed cleaner? Agreements are made verbally. Obviously different if you are dealing with an agency or something, but everyone I know who has a cleaner has found their cleaner through a friend, or personal recommendation.

Self-employed people (I am one) get paid for the work they do. If they are not working because they are sick, or on holiday, or just don't fancy coming that week, they don't get paid.

My cleaners have always been self employed, so only paid for the work that they do. I usually give them an extra week’s pay as a Christmas bonus. (Not this year though, started last week and failed to turn up this week or communicate they wouldn’t be coming).

No you shouldn't pay when they don't come. Whenni was self employed, I never got paid for being off sick. They would use that money to pay someone else.

We don’t have a contract with her & she is self employed. We just knew that since through lockdown she might have a lot of people not paying her and she had recently moved from working for a firm to being self employed so wouldn’t be entitled to claim it seemed the right thing to do. I’m sure cleaners are not thick and do factor in illness but equally we’ve budgeted to pay weekly and if she misses one week it’s not as if we can find someone else to do it and most of the occasions were linked to covid isolations where we knew it was only 1 week in advance. Only on mumsnet would doing this somehow be an insult to our cleaner. Anyway this time she could be off for months based on others I know who have been in hospital with covid and she isn’t expecting to have a fast recovery based on her last message. We really can’t pay her and pay a replacement over a number of weeks. Also no my OH is not 12 but he has a distinct set of household things that he reliably gets on with and past experience has shown that other things (largely hoovering, dusting & cleaning bathrooms) are tasks he’s simply oblivious need to be done until things are already visibly filthy so unless I organise a rota and remind him he’d ignore them entirely for about a month and I will have done them before that. It’s one of those things where he genuinely feels it’s acceptable to leave a lot lot longer than I do and we will never agree on so paying someone else to do it saves falling out over it.

I have cancelled my cleaner this week as I have COVId but still paid her as not her fault.
If she cancels though I don’t pay.
I did pay her half through lockdown as wanted to make sure she came back.

@OverByYer

I have cancelled my cleaner this week as I have COVId but still paid her as not her fault. If she cancels though I don’t pay. I did pay her half through lockdown as wanted to make sure she came back.

This ^^

I get where you’re coming from OP but I’d decide after Christmas. Hopefully she’ll be out of hospital and her availability will be clearer.

I'm self employed and if I don't go to work, I don't get paid. (But I factor this in and my pay is a little higher than if I did the same role as an employee.)

So I feel, you have been generous enough already and to cease payment until she next comes to work for you.

I think you’ve been really generous so far. I’ve paid our cleaner when we’ve cancelled and during lockdown too but I think after two weeks of absence it’s fair enough to get someone else to do it and not pay.