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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not pay cleaner when sick so we can book a replacement

71 replies

whatkatydid2013 · 23/12/2021 08:33

We’ve had the same cleaner for quite some time & think she does a good job. Over the past couple of years we’ve had a number of times we’ve paid her when she hasn’t been able to come (1st lockdown for a couple of months & then several individual weeks when one of us was isolating as a close contact or when she was poorly). Last week she got in touch to say she couldn’t make it as she was ill & this week she’s been in touch to say she’s in hospital with covid and not sure when she might be back at work. We paid last week & this but I’ve suggested to OH maybe we pay next week but then stop until we hear back from her and sort out a cleaning service to come in the meantime. We can’t afford to pay both and while it’s obviously not her fault she caught covid I don’t want to get in the situation of having to do everything on my own (husband will ignore those jobs which is why we got a cleaner in the first place). AIBU to only cover 3 weeks of sick pay and then stop till she comes back?

OP posts:

billy1966 · 23/12/2021 09:52

I pay when I cancel but I certainly don't pay when she cancels.

Would never occur to me to do so.

Overthinkingx3 · 23/12/2021 09:59

The reality is most of these people who are self employed are screwed as it is impossible
For them to get weekly benefits when most of their jobs have had to be cancelled

And she can’t apply from her hospital bed but may have kids / dogs / elderlies dependant on her

How shit

OP - you have been very generous though . Most people wouldn’t bother

You clearly have a conscience!

HardbackWriter · 23/12/2021 10:04

Argh, you've created quite a difficult situation for yourself, tbh - I wouldn't have paid for the other, more minor absences but given that you did it is going to seem very harsh to message saying you're going to stop paying her while she's in a hospital bed. But on the other hand it could be a long time until she's back... I think you'd be completely justified in stopping paying but I don't know if I could send her that message saying you're stopping.

TheCatterall · 23/12/2021 10:07

I’m self employed. If I get covid and can’t work that’s on me and I will have to make other financial arrangements.

Change123today · 23/12/2021 10:08

If the cleaner cancels we don’t pay her. If we cancel then I pay her - usually if something happening that day we try to reschedule. But for example she was due yesterday but my older daughter is a close contact of a positive covid. I thought it was unfair especially being so close to Christmas to let her come - we still paid her though.
During lockdown we paid half. I didn’t want to loose my slot!! Glad I did as she got a lot more in demand!!!

lonelylou09 · 23/12/2021 10:22

I'm a self employed cleaner so like others have said..if I don't work I don't get paid. But that's why I charge more than what I would get paid working under someone else.
Most of my clients wouldn't pay if I didn't go although I do have one lovely lady who insists on paying me just the same if I go or not. This week she has paid me double so I can have a week off next week. She said she wanted me to have a break and they also have family staying. Shes also paid me one week as I was very ill after having my first jab which I tried to refuse but she insisted.
I wouldn't however expect her to pay me if the reason I didn't go was my fault as that's unfair on her.
I think it's lovely that you have paid her throughout lockdown before but I think you need to say that you hope she recovers but you can't afford to pay double while she's ill..as like you said that could be a long time. I think you've been more than generous so far but you have to put your own needs first

Original poster

whatkatydid2013 · 23/12/2021 11:12

Thanks all for the comments. I think general consensus is it’s not unreasonable but it is horrible timing to say we can’t now. I’m going to get in touch at some point next week and check in to see how she is doing and broach how long she expects to be away before we decide.

OP posts:

Lolamento · 23/12/2021 11:14

Only pay if you can afford it. It is not her fault to be I’ll but you can’t stretch yourself over this. Also, she may be taking you for granted after you paid during Covid. I use an agency and if she does not come she does not get paid. I pay more but things are between her and the agency.

ChrimboGateauxCatto · 23/12/2021 11:22

We would still pay her. Especially now

EatSleepRantRepeat · 23/12/2021 11:26

@User2638483

Mine is self employed but I offered to pay her for 4 weeks a year when she didn’t come for holiday or because of illness. What sparked it off really is that she’s very dependent on her weekly cleaning money and so wanted to always come even when our day fell on Xmas eve or a bank holiday or something. It works well for us and I know she appreciates it. In theory she can use those 4 weeks for unplanned illness but in reality she’s hardly ever ill so uses them as planned holiday. But I know I wouldn’t genuinely get someone else in. If you genuinely are going to then I think it’s reasonable to put a time limit on it although it’s not ideal to change things whilst she’s unwell in hospital and might have been expecting you to keep paying based on your last behaviour.

This is so sensible and a great idea, especially with covid. I know people who aren't testing or are turning up to work with symptoms and not telling anyone because they don't want to lose the money, this gives her the opportunity to stay away from at least your home that week until she's better.

ginghamstarfish · 23/12/2021 11:34

I've never had a cleaner but can't imagine why you'd pay a self-employed person for not turning up to their job.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 23/12/2021 11:42

I paid my cleaner when she didn't come all through lockdown. I was shielding and having cancer treatment so it was a year for me. She came back in April 21 and has been 3 times since then. She says that she's too busy now. The last time I heard from her was in September. I will never do that again.
I'm now looking for another cleaner to start in the new year. My daughter has been making a 2 hour round trip every week to help and I've been paying her, but she finishes maternity leave in February

Elphame · 23/12/2021 11:46

I pay my cleaner if she is ill.

I know I don't have to but I also know she relies on the money.

Luredbyapomegranate · 23/12/2021 11:47

I don't think you are being unreasonable, and you've been generous in the past, but if you can possibly stretch and review in 6 weeks then do.

But if you can't you can't.

I do think people should at least allow their cleaners a certain amount of sick pay a year (which you have) - yes they are self employed, but it's also a low paid job done by women so I'd always try and support where I could - but of course there will be a limit.

HardbackWriter · 23/12/2021 11:47

@Sugarplumfairy65

I paid my cleaner when she didn't come all through lockdown. I was shielding and having cancer treatment so it was a year for me. She came back in April 21 and has been 3 times since then. She says that she's too busy now. The last time I heard from her was in September. I will never do that again. I'm now looking for another cleaner to start in the new year. My daughter has been making a 2 hour round trip every week to help and I've been paying her, but she finishes maternity leave in February

I know a few people that this happened to - paid the cleaner all through lockdown 1 and they then either never came back or came back once or twice.

HardbackWriter · 23/12/2021 11:48

yes they are self employed, but it's also a low paid job done by women

Why do people only ever have this patronising attitude about cleaners?

caringcarer · 23/12/2021 11:54

As your cleaner is self employed you are being fair. Instead of paying full wage for 3 weeks you could offer half pay for 6 weeks. After that she may be well enough to return. Also moves away from expectation of full pay if not cleaning for you.

Jazzy1000 · 23/12/2021 12:00

@HardbackWriter

yes they are self employed, but it's also a low paid job done by women

Why do people only ever have this patronising attitude about cleaners?

It's not patronizing it's realistic. Self employed cleaners have no job security low pay etc. We have a brilliant cleaner coming to us 3 years now who has made life so much easier for us. I'm a teacher with good condition s so feel it's only fair to pay her a few weeks holidays and some sick days (she's never been sick but would).. also I want her to keep coming to us.

FindingMeno · 23/12/2021 12:01

It's Christmas. Do the best you can to pay her.

Squeezita · 23/12/2021 12:04

I think it’s a natural time to stop payments, what with end of year.

You have been generous enough.

RavingAnnie · 23/12/2021 12:12

You should not pay when they are sick or on holiday or any other reason (except if you cancel within any cancellation period if course). The arraignment could start to look like an employee type arrange rather than self employed and you would then become liable for things like having to pay holiday, sick pay, redundancy pay, tax, NI etc etc.

If your cleaner is self employed, make sure the arrangement looks like it's self employment.

A while back a family was required to pay a significant amount of redundancy pay to their cleaner by an employment tribunal. They had been paying holiday and sick pay if I recall correctly - I believe they had also set her hours.

Elphame · 23/12/2021 12:12

@HardbackWriter

yes they are self employed, but it's also a low paid job done by women

Why do people only ever have this patronising attitude about cleaners?

Because in many cases it's the truth.

I've never had a man apply for a domestic cleaning job and when I used agencies, they never sent a man around either.

Google tells me the average hourly pay for a self employed cleaner in London is around £12 an hour. Obviously some will get more. Cleaners via an agency are generally on minimum wage.

HW1989 · 23/12/2021 12:29

I’ve never had a cleaner but certainly wouldn’t be paying them if they didn’t show up, only if I had to cancel them last minute. I’ve worked as a self employed nanny before I didn’t get paid if I was sick and didn’t go in.
Very kind of you that you have paid her so much when she’s not been able to come in, and of course it’s awful timing to stop it now, but very tough on you to be paying someone for work that’s not being done, unless you’re extremely wealthy of course!

LittleBearPad · 23/12/2021 12:37

@ginghamstarfish

I've never had a cleaner but can't imagine why you'd pay a self-employed person for not turning up to their job.

Because good cleaners are hard to find and worth hanging on to when things happen beyond their control - at least in the short term.

LittleBearPad · 23/12/2021 12:41

@RavingAnnie

If your cleaner is self employed, make sure the arrangement looks like it's self employment.

It’s the setting her hours that’s the killer there - and it’s doubtful that £50 a week is going to amount to much redundancy pay so I’ll take my chances

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