Teachers!

[MsFannySqueers]

So retired/ex teachers are being asked to consider returning to the classroom because of possible staff shortages in the New Year. Is this something you would do?

If I’d been asked, I’d have considered it, Chloe, but I do think you’re completely misunderstanding me.

I don’t think anyone should. I do think the outrage of some to it being merely suggested doesn’t reflect brilliantly on us as a profession.

I do genuinely get where you are coming from because I knew as soon as the DforE announced it and retired teachers (and ex teachers of any age that have also been asked for) would mostly say they wouldn’t, with the reasons why, then plenty would use it as another stick to beat educators with again. It’s the DforE setting us up to fail again, just like they have done throughout the pandemic. Most ex teachers already have new jobs, are looking after their babies/children, are vulnerable due to age or other medical reasons, which the DforE know they employ enough ex Teach First taking them out the classroom after all
They also know this is the cheaper option than dealing with the actual issue at hand in schools anyway and are relying on this to help tick a box.

However, no amount of ‘pipe down’ will help either and current teachers who have worked every day since March 2020 and never had an easy time of it, are currently mentally spent and just trying to make that known.

I'm a supply teacher (primary), and I know reliable, good ones, are like gold dust for schools at the moment. I've never been so busy.

All the ex-teachers I know have said a firm "NO CHANCE".

Pre-covid I knew quite a few retired teachers, who did a bit of supply just to keep busy and supplement their pensions a bit. I used to see a lovely retired ex-head teacher named Phillip who quite often. Lovely man. I haven't seen him once since all this kicked off, but think of him quite often. I hope he's okay.

My own dad was a retired teacher (he's no longer with us, but would be 67 now), and honestly? I wouldn't want him anywhere near a school at the moment.

If they put a call out for nurses to work in a covid ward and a load of ex nurses said ‘fuck that’, I’d think ‘god, covid wards are clearly not great workplaces’. I wouldn’t think ‘aren’t nurses on covid wards terrible’.

@noblegiraffe

If they put a call out for nurses to work in a covid ward and a load of ex nurses said ‘fuck that’, I’d think ‘god, covid wards are clearly not great workplaces’. I wouldn’t think ‘aren’t nurses on covid wards terrible’.

Would you change your vote to a party specifically to help nurses?

I wouldn’t dream of saying pipe down and I hope that’s not how I’m coming across. But if people have been upset by teacher bashing don’t give them a stick, I suppose.

Supply teachers have been treated really badly for years. In some ways I hope this means their working conditions are reformed.

@manysummersago

I wouldn’t dream of saying pipe down and I hope that’s not how I’m coming across. But if people have been upset by teacher bashing don’t give them a stick, I suppose.

Supply teachers have been treated really badly for years. In some ways I hope this means their working conditions are reformed.

Exactly.

You wouldn’t giraffe but the problem is that’s not always how public perception works.

Supply teachers have been treated really badly for years. In some ways I hope this means their working conditions are reformed.

Ha!
I’ll let you know. Maybe they’ll clap for us and put up a few rainbows.
Rather than a pay rise, or sick pay.

We can hope, right?

But in all seriousness it’s been going on since I started teaching - supply teachers forced to do unpaid days, use umbrella companies for pay, no pension contributions, no sick pay, not paid to scale, paid as cover supervisors - and now we have no supply teachers. Well, what a shock

@manysummersago

You wouldn’t giraffe but the problem is that’s not always how public perception works.

and you can change public perception by telling them about the reality.

A year ago people were arguing that schools were covid safe and didn’t need mitigation measures. That public perception has now drastically changed.

The outrage is because, yet again, teachers cannot believe how out of touch with any sort of reality the DfE are.

No retired teachers I know want to come anywhere near a school. People actively avoid seeing me socially because I'm a teacher and the covid risk is so high.

Not a chance would let my mum or she would want to. Now 72 my step dad is nearly 90 with chest problems no risking his life. She taught 16+ they can distance learn.

Pumperthepumper

Who is calling us lazy and work shy?

I can't believe that you need this answering. Besides its already been answered upthread.

And why do you care?

Because whether you understand it or not we need the support of parents to change how things are.

I don’t see why anyone would laugh when they asked the same of NHS staff.

@Pumperthepumper my daughter's ward (she's a ward sister) was a Covid ward when that call went out. She laughed hollowly, too. She thought retired doctors and nurses would be mad to come back and risk themselves (it was pre-vaccination, too, so could have been a death sentence, and was for some retired staff who did go back).

I think you'd have liked Thatcher and her whole 'no such thing as society' rhetoric Thumper.

Individual teachers can do nothing much to change their working conditions - it needs to come from way above us and even way above HTs with things as fundamental as funding, inspection frameworks, the removal of a lot of the mandated work that consumes hours of our time in order for, as someone upthread put it, someone somewhere to tick a box.

How do you suggest individual teachers change their working conditions?

At the beginning of this month our school paid an outside agency to come in and do a multi departmental deep dive to see if we were ofsted ready - in the midst of all this madness. I could blame my slt for putting stupid excess pressure on us but they have stupid excess pressure being piled on them from above.

Education, and our working conditions, are a political issue. Speaking out is part of politics. It's not like we work at an accountants and the big boss is in the corner office and we can just tell him no - our big bosses are the government. The government are endlessly manipulating the public's perception of the state of education and what the government is doing for education and writing about what they'll do in their manifestos etc. Should people not criticise the job they're doing? Do parents not need to know what is really going on in schools where they are sending their children? Do you think there's a way to effect our bosses other than informing the electorate?

@saraclara

I don’t see why anyone would laugh when they asked the same of NHS staff.

@Pumperthepumper my daughter's ward (she's a ward sister) was a Covid ward when that call went out. She laughed hollowly, too. She thought retired doctors and nurses would be mad to come back and risk themselves (it was pre-vaccination, too, so could have been a death sentence, and was for some retired staff who did go back).

I'm glad you said that - I can remember in the first wave the sad reports of retired doctors who'd gone back and ended up dying.

You'd think lessons would be learned.

I also massively agree with those who said they'd want to see slt get their butts in the classroom more (instead of dreaming up more work to pile on us in their lust for outstanding status) before we dragged pensioners in.

Though frankly ime most of them aren't much cop in the classroom.

And! (Sorry mad multiple posting)

Here in England at least we have similar problems to hospitals in that the erosion of other public services impacts massively on us too. Hospitals have bed blocking because of the state of social care, we are massively impacted by the erosion of social services, camhs, ed psych provision, lack of special school places etc.

It's all joined up and the only ones with power to change it are the government and the only thing that motivates them is voters making very clear and loud what they want. That electorate that you think it's a waste of time talking to.

I’m retired (Maths) and had long planned to do some supply after retirement, because I love being in the classroom and have a great deal of experience and expertise to offer. However schools are very unsafe places, especially for those of us over 60, so I found something else to do instead.
It’s astonishing that no effort or significant cash was allocated to support education and keep children and staff (and by extension, their families) safe once the virus was better understood. The situation we’re in was totally predictable and was indeed predicted by teachers on MN threads, to be mostly rewarded by derision and contempt.
I’d be very surprised if exams next year go ahead, and if they do, the playing field will be far from level for candidates.

What’s happened to all the new teachers who graduated this year?

Most teacher training is via a post-graduate route. It's a while since sufficient numbers were trained to meet need anyway.

The above are facts. This is just opinion: the move from university-based training to school-based training is a huge error, politically motivated and not in the best interests of children, young people or society.

What’s happened to all the new teachers who graduated this year?

There weren't enough of them to meet recruitment targets to start with and a significant number never teach in the state sector.

@noblegiraffe

What’s happened to all the new teachers who graduated this year?

There weren't enough of them to meet recruitment targets to start with and a significant number never teach in the state sector.

Or even in this country!

What’s happened to all the new teachers who graduated this year?
Quite a lot who start never complete.
Quite a lot who complete don't start teaching.
Quite a lot who start teaching go into the private sector.

If ex teachers and retired teachers trip merrily along to the volunteering table then the shit that teachers have put up with for years, and especially have put up with during covid, will be brushed under the carpet. After all, it can't be all that bad if all of those former teachers are happy to return to the classroom.

It is only by saying a very firm NO and even a FUCK THAT that maybe, just maybe, some people will realise that the way teachers are treated in this country is unacceptable.

As I said before I left early with no job to go on. I have been living off my savings for a year now. Even if you paid me I would not go back into the classroom.

@amillionmenonmars

If ex teachers and retired teachers trip merrily along to the volunteering table then the shit that teachers have put up with for years, and especially have put up with during covid, will be brushed under the carpet. After all, it can't be all that bad if all of those former teachers are happy to return to the classroom.

It is only by saying a very firm NO and even a FUCK THAT that maybe, just maybe, some people will realise that the way teachers are treated in this country is unacceptable.

As I said before I left early with no job to go on. I have been living off my savings for a year now. Even if you paid me I would not go back into the classroom.

Wow. This and so many other similar extreme reluctance. This is a profession that people go to Uni to qualify for. How awful must being a teacher be to have people leaving all that behind and never ever ever willing to go back.

I feel for the teachers that are still there at the moment. Do they enjoy their jobs? Are they struggling every day to make themselves go in? Do their colleagues and seniors know the issues? Are they empowered to do anything about it?

My mind is blown by this thread.

I will always show compassion and kindness to teachers.